Food For Thought

When Out-Of-Town

When traveling to small towns that have local hechsherim, how does one go about finding out if they can rely on that hechsher? Rabbi Yaakov Eisenbach - Rabbinic Coordinator at the cRc, gives us some guidance on this topic.

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R’ Yitzchok Hisiger: Hello everyone and welcome back to Let's Talk Kashrus presented by the Kashrus Awareness Project. Today I am privileged to be joined by Rabbi Yaakov Eisenbach, rabbinic coordinator for food service at the Chicago Rabbinical Council. Thank you Rabbi Eisenbach for being here once again. So nice to see you.

R’ Yaakov Eisenbach: Always such an honor to be here and coming back. Thank you.

R’ Yitzchok Hisiger: So I want to talk to you about consumers who go out of town. I get this a lot.

First of all, people travel much more than they used to, many people travel on business, people go out of town, they come to a restaurant, the restaurant may have a hashgacha but they don't recognize what it is, they don't know what they could eat. Give us a little guideline as a mashgiach who's been doing this for over two decades, you've been there, you've seen it, you see what goes on in these places. Give that traveling consumer a few tips for what he or she should know when they're on the road.

R’ Yaakov Eisenbach: The number one thing I would tell a consumer or someone who travels a lot or even if you don't travel, you go once a year, twice a year, and we're going there and call our office and call the cRc or call someone you know in kashrus and say do you know anything about this place, can I eat there.

R’ Yitzchok Hisiger: Very often, I'll just mention, very often they don't have the ability to do so because they don't even know this restaurant exists until they get to the city and then they're there and they're in the local shul and they or something or they meet someone and they say to someone, do you know if there's any place to eat over here and they say yeah, there's this restaurant down the block and they go there and now they're literally sitting in the restaurant. They didn't have a chance to call the cRc to prep them. They might have a few cans of sardines and tuna in their hotel room, they brought a little preparation, a few crackers, but now they're on the spur of the moment, what could they do.

R’ Yaakov Eisenbach: So again in these small towns we acknowledge that there are different levels based on the town and availability.

So in a big city we expect the hashgacha to be of a higher level. Certain small towns the rav wants to bring kashrus and have some place for people to eat out in order to raise up population, people can be able to. One of the things people look at is there a shul, is there a mikvah, is there other things that a day school, a high school, Jewish infrastructure. One of the Jewish infrastructure is to have food service, place to go out for breakfast.

Even if it's not but there's somewhere we can go get a coffee and not deal with Starbucks and look at the list, oh I can get this latte that's made with I don't even know how to pronounce it. So we understand so let's say we go to a bigger city where there's more mashgichim available, where the consumer there also is of a higher level where they want and there's a small city where you can't find anybody to help and they're not doing anything big. We're not talking about fleishig restaurants like a small bagel place, maybe milchig, so there's guidelines of what would be the minimum hashgacha, what is the maximum hashgacha. So you go to a town again you could be out in Oklahoma, I don't know and then they have a small shul there and the local rav gives a hechsher to a bagel place.

So will you have a mashgiach temidi there, no you probably won't. But if it's under hashgacha, you got to get a hold of the rav and speak to him just say what are the standards that you have here. Is there any cholov yisroel of again, depends on your standard. The bagels, where are they coming from.

If you're makpid on pas yisroel. Pas yisroel sure. So he'll tell you a lot of the places they do turn it on depending on the hashgacha of who's giving it in that local town. That rav might be makpid on pas yisroel or I've seen it where it's not pas yisroel but they bake challahs for them so on Fridays or Thursdays the rabbi goes in and turns it on.

Oh is that right. I've seen it. I've seen it. But for somebody traveling and there's a town usually it's the local rav who's the rav hamachshir.

So that is the number one person to call. So some places if it's a fleishig restaurant now do you have a mashgiach temidi there. We're talking more issues. I mean in a regular milchig restaurant you have issues too.

Is there bishul yisroel, just the actual cooking. Bedikas tolaim right. Bedikas tolaim and some people say the rav will tell you don't eat the tolaim. I'm relying on this for the hamon am but for you it's not.

Don't eat vegetables. Right.

R’ Yitzchok Hisiger: There are people by the way who travel who do ask these there are people I could think of who reach out to me and I'm just kind of the middle person here because they know I have a connection to many kashrus agencies through Let's Talk Kashrus and the people who travel and they're constantly asking I'm going to Bermuda, I'm going to Panama, I'm going talking about outside the United States or I'm traveling to the Midwest so on and so forth and they want to know what. Where they could eat.

So beyond speaking to the local rov or if you're doing it in advance you're speaking to the cRc is there anything else that someone should know?

R’ Yaakov Eisenbach: Sure. Let's say you go and there is a mashgiach there. But you don't know let's say the hashgacha it's a big city but you've never heard of this hashgacha. So the first thing you should ask is is there a mashgiach here present? They say yeah so and I've taught this to my kids too you know the first thing just throw questions meaning is the tuna bishul yisrael? Is the bread pas yisrael? What's yoshon? Which meat are you using? And if the mashgiach just boom boom boom boom you know you're doing good.

You know again is he there all the time? I don't know but at least you know there's somebody overseeing what's going on in the place.

R’ Yitzchok Hisiger: You're saying the way someone answers a question tells you a lot about their knowledge their efficiency their accountability.

R’ Yaakov Eisenbach: Some places I've been was very nice they have a list and the daily list of because certain people want this meat hashgacha this hashgacha and they write on each day what the meat is this chicken cutlets is this hashgacha the meat ground beef is this. So that's you know that's knowledgeable you know we have at the CRC and we're upgrading it you know as we have these screens you ever been in Chicago at a restaurant in Chicago? R’ Yitzchok Hisiger: I've been in one restaurant I think in Chicago.

R’ Yaakov Eisenbach: Okay I'll call Rabbi Fishbane we'll invite you come in there we'll take you around a little bit you'll see what we do. We have these screens some have broken down we're getting we're updating it where it's going to be able because everything's online by us of all our restaurants of what they have what's the the status of the yoshon pas yisrael and bishul yisrael tuna and all that but we're going to be updating it that automatically any changes they're going to be wifi into this screen that we're going to have in every restaurant and just update whenever it has to update. You can literally look it up on the spot. It's there it's sitting on we have them in our places some and then also because we're open they have my cellphone number on it you have any questions call me or my yotzei v'nichnas.

And I've gotten over the years I've got some phone calls. We're here to help the consumer out and we're not trying to cover anything.

R’ Yitzchok Hisiger: You know before we wrap up I'm sure as a mashgiach and I'm sure other your fellow mashgichim encounter this issue of kashrus out of town because precisely because you're traveling so much right so you end up in many places in a durf somewhere some village some town where there aren't many Jewish establishments if any right and I'm sure you so the mashgichim themselves are dealing with this challenge.

R’ Yaakov Eisenbach: Yeah so they usually brown bag it.

R’ Yitzchok Hisiger: Yeah is that right?

R’ Yaakov Eisenbach: Oh yeah yeah I go to a Walmart bring along your rice cakes I always whenever I travel rice cakes and cheese you know.

R’ Yitzchok Hisiger: Rice cakes and cheese that's the go to?

R’ Yaakov Eisenbach: Oh that's my go to from Wisconsin you got to take the cheese but

R’ Yitzchok Hisiger: and how do you keep that how do you maybe you have an ice pack or

R’ Yaakov Eisenbach: No they bring when you get to the hotel you pour ice over everything. But I have the luxury I deal with food service so I have all the headaches but I get to be home every night so I don't have to travel so much get to be in yeshiva I get to do you know but it's I can be up this week mashgiach got sick 5:00 a.m. in the morning he says he's going to go open up but I got to find a replacement for him. So that's a different type of you know the dedication of the mashgichim.

R’ Yitzchok Hisiger: Sure sure sure.

R’ Yaakov Eisenbach: And food service is I always talk about is I mean we could talk about this something else to discuss is just the day to day what a mashgiach does compared to somebody who goes to a company you know a company you go there forty five minutes half hour check the items you get paid certain amount but a food service in normal cases they're getting paid by the hour and they're.

R’ Yitzchok Hisiger: You know I'm happy that you mentioned the dedication of mashgiach we'll end with this because just this week I met the rebbitzen of a certain mashgiach wife very dedicated mashgiach someone who's worked in the field of kashrus for many years and what emerged from my conversation is that most people don't appreciate the dedication of kashrus mashgichim besides that they don't get paid enough which is a conversation for a separate episode but just their mere dedication most of which goes unnoticed and flies under the radar it really is a tremendous service to klal yisrael all of the products we have and the plethora of items that we have in kosher supermarkets and so on and so forth is thanks to people like yourself who may be you know on the higher level and then the on the field mashgichim who really enable us to enjoy the many items that are available.

R’ Yaakov Eisenbach: When I was in yeshiva I mean as a kid bein hazmanim I used to work for extra money so we used to do the cholov yisrael runs in those days it's not the same now where you have three four farms with thousands of animals. And the hours and the you get paid. I'm not saying they don't pay, but the dedication like you've said here where they'll travel and they're away from home all week. Sure, I understand they got to make a parnassah and they're doing that, but it's you know, or they sit on a farm for a whole week so they get to learn, they get to this. But the mesiras nefesh, they go away for Shabbos.

You know, and I think about in food service too. A mashgiach there's Shabbos parties, they got to take care of the mashgiach, you know, but they're not home for Shabbos. They're not home, right? Right. Right.

You ever go see a thank you to the mashgiach and say, I know it's not easy for you to get away from home and thank you and your wife that you're able to enhance our Shabbos by being here. You know, you go all these big, big dinners that they have, right? The amount of time that goes planning it and spend behind the times and working with it, you know when it's a three, four-day convention, right? Yeah, sure. What goes behind it and the hours and the walking. I had to get three pairs of shoes at times, you know, once at Pesach one time besides the cruises, okay, that I could tell you stories about that too.

But you're 16, 17, 18 hours on your feet.

R’ Yitzchok Hisiger: Wow. You know? Listen, it's unbelievable what the mashgichim do and Rabbi Eisenbach, you as well, thank you for your immense contributions to the world of kashrus as you've been doing for a good over 20 years. So thank you for that and thank you once again for joining us. We appreciate it.

R’ Yaakov Eisenbach: Thank you. Appreciate it.