The Party Planner Puzzle

We have discussed party planners in the past, but this week we focus on another angle. Rabbi Yaakov Eisenbach - Rabbinic Coordinator at the cRc gives us the mashgiach's perspective of giving a hechsher to an event that is being run by a party planner, and the complexities it entails.

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R’ Yitzchok Hisiger: Hello everyone and welcome back to Let's Talk Kashrus, presented by the Kashrus Awareness Project. Today I am privileged to be joined by Rabbi Yaakov Eisenbach, rabbinic coordinator for food service at the Chicago Rabbinical Council. Thank you Rabbi Eisenbach for joining us, how are you?

R’ Yaakov Eisenbach: Doing wonderful.

R’ Yitzchok Hisiger: We want to talk to you about today just for a few minutes is party planners.

Now we've done some episodes about party planners but I want to hear from you as a veteran Mashgiach what you encounter when you deal with party planners and hopefully we could have a few takeaways from this conversation both for party planners who may be watching this and also for the everyday man for the consumer so that they should know what happens when there is that interaction between the party planner who's trying to do their job and the Mashgiach who obviously has an achrayus to do his job.

R’ Yaakov Eisenbach: You can have a party planner who does the party themselves. And they'll do from A to Z and I always tell the party planners because I've gone to party planners, I've been dealing with this for years. I say go under Hashgacha.

She says, "We're not a caterer." I said, "You are a caterer. You have keilim. You have utensils. Whether it's toiveled or not I don't know because no one's overseeing any of these party planners.

And where's it washed? This is just an example. They'll go into a house and you have equipment and they're doing fifty person party. Now, are they cooking the food? No." I said, "The only difference between you and a caterer will say is that they might have a kitchen. But no difference, you're getting the food is like you're having a kitchen, you're preparing it, you're keeping you're renting hot boxes, you're renting equipment.

Is it kosher, not kosher equipment, who's kashering it for you?" So if you go into a private party and someone invites you for a parlor meeting you should look for a Mashgiach. But then these party planners will go ahead and as one party planner once told me, we just gotta get the job done. Whatever it takes to do. So if it's a Shabbos party for example, they might send the person we ran out of ice, go get the ice on Shabbos.

Now, being at a party your it doesn't meet your standard that you're having the goyim doing things that would not be permitted in your own house. So that's a regular party planner and I've been dealing with it and I've gone I've tried in Chicago where I've gone to shuls and met with the Rabbonim to give policies. Some shuls do have policies. But I said you have a party planner coming in here.

I'll give you a case yesterday. Somebody there was a shul, very good in Hashgacha, the regular Mashgiach is out of town, one of our caterers doing a job, and they say, "Could you do us a favor and could you find us a Mashgiach?" So I was out of town but I texted them a couple names. So this person texted back and I told them I can't talk, speak to my associate who I work with if you have any questions about it. So here's a prime example.

So the party planner said be here at five o'clock. Now Shabbos means it already started. So obviously everything was prepared beforehand, meaning they brought the food, had to put it in the hot boxes or however they're prepping, putting up the blech if it's being done properly, and they said to come at five o'clock. Five o'clock means come by the meal.

So a lot of these party planners it's more of a show that they have to have a Mashgiach because the shul requires a Mashgiach but they're dictating what time to come. Five o'clock, everything is done. Meaning whatever had to been done for the prep, tables are set, the oven was put in or whatever they're using for equipment for Shabbos if they're doing it properly. So my associate told them, which I would have told them, you call up when they're bringing the food, you're there from the beginning till after clean-up.

And I've had that too where another rabbi came up to me two weeks ago. He had a party planner in his shul, okay, they hired their own Mashgiach, it's usually a CRC Mashgiach that they hire because I can't stop them, they're a freelancer to do what they want. And they went ahead and and he's hired by her so he's not following the CRC rule as far as that is and he left at the end after everything was done. Meantime the party planner's there loading up her car for after I mean I don't even know what she did or he did whoever the party planner was and just loaded all, cleaned up the thing and loaded up the truck and had the non-Jewish person I think I don't know they took it away on Shabbos or just not.

But if what happened by us that doesn't do it because either sometimes we have to move it let's say if we're in an area where they gotta get it out, so they have the truck parked and they leave it there. Mashgiach holds onto the keys until after Shabbos so we know no one can say anything. And then they go.

But here, the rabbi came to me and says, we don't allow her back. We gave her a phone call. We're not allowing this party planner back. So these are just issues that the party planners themselves do on their own because they don't have to play by rules.

But then we had a story, I would say, about two years ago. They bought new equipment, was a party, bought new equipment for hotel, everything right. What was the problem? The tevilas keilim. So, gotta do a party, so the mashgiach went with the workers there.

There was a river right there to go tovel the keilim. Wow. Every single kli. Wow.

R’ Yitzchok Hisiger: What percentage of party planners do you think today have hashgacha?

R’ Yaakov Eisenbach: None. None. I have not heard of a party planner. We once had a caterer who was really,

R’ Yitzchok Hisiger: at least the ones you deal with.

R’ Yaakov Eisenbach: The ones I deal with. I haven't heard anybody from out of town tell me.

R’ Yitzchok Hisiger: Like you said, that's a big, big problem. First of all, who's overseeing, even if the caterer they use has hashgacha, we're assuming the caterer they're using.

R’ Yaakov Eisenbach: I mean, they're getting the food. They're getting the food from somewhere. A drop-off. A drop-off means here's your food, zei gezunt.

R’ Yitzchok Hisiger: But who's ensuring that the hashgacha on that establishment is reliable? Who's ensuring that however their keilim are being washed, that that's being washed properly? Right?

R’ Yaakov Eisenbach: Not being washed in a facility with somebody's house. Somebody's house. You wouldn't eat in their house. I've had this.

Now she has her own dishes or he has his own dishes, the party planner. Now you have those dishes washed in someone's house, fine. And then they want to go ahead and do a vort or a fifty person dinner and you got a beautiful china. And she's bringing it with the caterer.

CRC caterer or whatever hashgacha they're under. You don't know what these plates are. What do they say to you?

R’ Yitzchok Hisiger: So what do you do as a representative of the CRC? You show up, a party planner brings their own dishes and you don't know where those dishes have been. So what do you do? You say you can't use them?

R’ Yaakov Eisenbach: Right.

They're not used. We'll walk out. If you insist on that, I'll tell the mashgiach, he'll be paid for his full day, we will walk out.

R’ Yitzchok Hisiger: But I would say the takeaway from our conversation is twofold.

From the party planner standpoint, obviously we would encourage every party planner to have a reputable hashgacha. No question. It's definitely an extra expense for them, but it's vital that they have hashgacha. Right? Am I right about that?

R’ Yaakov Eisenbach: Yeah.

It's not such an extra expense over a year. You know what I'm saying?

R’ Yitzchok Hisiger: You know, and it's and I would say from the consumer standpoint, I think maybe the way to make inroads on this issue is if people, when you hire a party planner, the first question you should be asking is, do you have hashgacha? And then the more it becomes part of the conversation, maybe, maybe, maybe there will be some kind of transformation.

R’ Yaakov Eisenbach: Comes from pressure from the consumer, literally.

R’ Yitzchok Hisiger: Rabbi Eisenbach, it's been a pleasure sitting with you.

It's so nice to hear your reminiscences about your experiences in kashrus, besides for your insight regarding this specific topic of party planners, and we hope to speak to you again. Thank you.

R’ Yaakov Eisenbach: Thank you.