L.T.K. Q&A: Dining Dilemmas

Part 2 of our Q&A series with Rav Shmuel Fuerst Dayan of Agudas Yisroel of Illinois to answer some of the recent questions that came in to us at Let's Talk Kashrus. This week's Q&A focuses on common dining related issues.

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R’ Yitzchok Hisiger: Hello everyone and welcome back to Let's Talk Kashrus presented by the Kashrus Awareness Project in conjunction with the Chicago Rabbinical Council. Today I am honored to be joined once again by Rav Shmuel Fuerst, Dayan of Agudas Yisrael of Illinois. Thank you Rav Fuerst for being here again. We'd like to continue our discussion of Shailos that came in and hear the Tshuvos of the Rav.

So a Shaila that we got is whether there is Bishul Akum when it comes to a microwave.

Rav Shmuel Fuerst: I saw several people discuss it if there's Bishul Akum by microwave. We hold L'dina there is Bishul Akum by microwave.

R’ Yitzchok Hisiger: Because we consider it real cooking?

Rav Shmuel Fuerst: Real cooking.

I asked this Shaila to Reb Elyashiv, he told me there's Bishul Akum. I asked Reb Shlomo Zalman, he told me there's Bishul Akum. So I asked Reb Shlomo Zalman in his Sefer Minchas Shlomo, he says on Shabbos he holds that it's a Bishul D'rabbanan. And Bishul D'rabbanan has no Bishul Akum, so also on Shabbos only Bishul D'rabbanan, so l'chora it should be there's no Bishul Akum by microwave.

I asked him this so he told me that there's a chillek. On Shabbos the reason why it's not D'Oraisa because not domeh to Melachas Hamishkan. So therefore that's why in microwave is only D'rabbanan. Mashe ein kein for Bishul Akum is zicher it's considered Bishul Akum, it has all the halachos of Bishul Akum by microwave.

I asked the same thing to Reb Yisrael Yaakov Fisher, he told me also there is Bishul Akum by microwave. So consensus of the Poskim is there is an issur Bishul Akum by microwave.

R’ Yitzchok Hisiger: Yeah, it's obviously nogaya to the food, it's nogaya to Keilim, right, to the microwave itself. It's nogaya to the microwave itself as well.

Yeah, I'm saying this could come up in someone's house if they have cleaning help. It comes up sometimes.

Rav Shmuel Fuerst: Very often it's not nogaya, most of the time people use a microwave just to reheat. So it's already cooked by a Yisroel, so it's only reheated, the issue is not Bishul Akum.

But sometimes there are certain things that you do a microwave, you cook mamash cooking, then there will be issur Bishul Akum if something's oleh al shulchan melachim.

R’ Yitzchok Hisiger: Right. A senior Posek was quoted as saying that the harder age cheeses that we have nowadays are not like they used to be and you don't have to wait six hours after eating these cheeses. Do we follow this opinion?

Rav Shmuel Fuerst: The consensus of most Poskim is not like that and you have to wait six hours for these real hard cheeses.

Now in America it's not shchiach, you don't see it that often around, especially unless it's a store that specializes in cheeses. Most of the cheeses you buy in a store are not a problem of six hours. Parmesan cheese there are Poskim hold you wait six hours, that's consensus of most Poskim. But the regular cheese you don't have to, American type, all American type cheese you do not have to wait six hours.

R’ Yitzchok Hisiger: Got it. How about if the cheese was melted into a dish, do you still have to wait?

Rav Shmuel Fuerst: Something like Parmesan cheese, something like that, it's only if it's eaten raw. But if it's melted, the Yad Yehuda says in siman pay tes, the Yad Yehuda says that if it's melted it's no more takes away the charifus, the charifus, and therefore you don't have to wait six hours. So nogaya certain fancy pizzas that are made with Parmesan cheese, that's when it's nogaya. Where it's melted in. Melted in, yeah.

R’ Yitzchok Hisiger: If one eats meat and then goes to sleep for half hour, does this break the six hour wait?

Rav Shmuel Fuerst: There's a Shaila in the Achronim, Daas Kedoshim and other Achronim clarify the Shaila if you sleep in between. However, L'dina the consensus of almost all Poskim is you must wait six hours no matter if you slept, you didn't sleep, it doesn't matter how long you slept, you must wait six hours and that's it, finished.

R’ Yitzchok Hisiger: Funny when I mentioned this question to someone and I mentioned to the Rav, he's like who ever heard of such a thing? I said there is a Shita like that.

Rav Shmuel Fuerst: It's a Shita, sure, the Daas Kedoshim, there are some people that are meikel, but l'mayseh you must wait six hours.

R’ Yitzchok Hisiger: Otherwise they'd be going to sleep all the time.

What Bracha does a person make on schnitzel?

Rav Shmuel Fuerst: I asked this Shaila many years ago to Reb Moshe and he told me on schnitzel you make Mezonos, you davka make a Mezonos.

I says what about a B'racha Achrona? He said no, just one Bracha, that's what Reb Moshe told me.

R’ Yitzchok Hisiger: Mezonos because of the breading?

Rav Shmuel Fuerst: Because of the breading, right. I asked this to and I saw printed in the name of Reb Elyashiv. Rav Elyashiv holds that it's printed in two places.

One place it's printed you make only mezonos, another place he says you make two brachos. I didn't see, it's quoted in the Sefer Ashrei Ish. I didn't see the mekoros where he wrote over there. Or it could be in one place he writes that you make two brachos is when you have something like chicken where you have a lot of chicken and you have this coating, this breaded coating on.

That could be maybe he held you make two brachos. But Rav Elyashiv it's printed you make a mezonos. One place says make two brachos. If you make two brachos, it could be that case was a little bit different.

But normally schnitzel according to Rav Moshe for sure you make mezonos. According to Rav Elyashiv it's a sha'ala what he held exactly.

R’ Yitzchok Hisiger: And when you say mezonos,

Rav Shmuel Fuerst: I tell everyone to make mezonos.

R’ Yitzchok Hisiger: Make mezonos really? Doesn't matter how thick the coating is? Even a thin coating?

Rav Shmuel Fuerst: It doesn't make a difference.

Made le-ta'am. And that's how we tell everyone dina.

R’ Yitzchok Hisiger: And a bracha achrona?

Rav Shmuel Fuerst: Bracha achrona depends if you had a kezayis of it.

R’ Yitzchok Hisiger: A kezayis of the coating?

Rav Shmuel Fuerst: Of the coating, right,

R’ Yitzchok Hisiger: which is probably not so shchiach.

Rav Shmuel Fuerst: Depends how thick it is. Depends how thick the coating is. So the bracha would be a sha'ala. I, to run it in my house, we use cornflake crumbs not to run into sha'alas.

So it's always a shehakol. So it's always a shehakol. You run out of sha'alas so we use cornflake crumbs and that's it.

R’ Yitzchok Hisiger: So when you're saying that it's mezonos, that's when you're using breadcrumbs. Breadcrumbs, yeah.

Right. I guess it's the truth is that it's hard to know. We would have to find out what they're using.

Rav Shmuel Fuerst: Best thing is what I do. I tell my wife uses from, what did I say again? A cornflake, cornflake crumbs, yeah.

R’ Yitzchok Hisiger: I was going to say when you go to a simcha or you go to a restaurant or you go to a takeout store you don't always know what they're using. What they're using.

Rav Shmuel Fuerst: They're using breadcrumbs derech klal usually, yeah.

R’ Yitzchok Hisiger: And then according to the Rav the bracha would be mezonos, bracha achrona would be al hamichya if you ate a kezayis of the breading. Right, correct. Okay, thank you so much.