Shabbos Mode: Are You Sure?

What does “Shabbos Mode” actually do—and what doesn’t it do? Rabbi Shmuel Katz, Rabbinic Coordinator at the cRc, joins R’ Yitzy Hisiger for an important discussion about the halachic realities, potential pitfalls, and different types of Shabbos modes found in today’s ovens.

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Hello and welcome back to Let's Talk Kashrus, presented by the cRC, the Chicago Rabbinical Council. Today I am privileged to be joined by Rabbi Shmuel Katz, rabbinical coordinator at the Chicago Rabbinical Council. Rabbi Katz, welcome to the Let's Talk Kashrus studio.

Thank you for having me here.

It's a pleasure to have you here all the way from Chicago to discuss a very pertinent topic, something that comes up a lot, and that's the topic of Shabbos mode on ovens. So just so that we proceed through this conversation responsibly, could you define for our viewers and our listeners, what does Shabbos mode do on an oven and then we'll get into the practical and halachic ramifications? So what is Shabbos mode? Okay, so that's a very loaded question, what is Shabbos mode? And that's where the misunderstanding start immediately. Appliances have been hitting consumer houses for about a hundred years. The shailos from the poskim are about a hundred years old already.

These been building on each other, but appliances are not static. They've changed. They're not the same thermostat that Rav Shlomo Zalman wrote his teshuvos on. It's a very different product today.

And even from Shabbos modes in their twenty-five plus year history have been solving different problems. So in the original days, they were more convenience-based. They've morphed at some point into severe halachic shailos and then the psakim involved have also kept up. And now there's multiple Shabbos modes available on the market for the consumers to be able to get to.

So on a practical level, and correct me if anything I say is not accurate, but the way I understand it is that the chief Shabbos mode addresses certain electrical issues on an oven. If it's an electrical oven where, you know, you have lights that will go on or numbers that will change and things of that sort. Once it's in Shabbos mode, that gets solved and now the oven can be opened and closed without triggering any of anything electrical. It didn't sound so sophisticated, but does that make sense? So yes, but the answer's going to really depend on the model and the oven.

It's going to be crucial to look at the instructions from the certifier on how to use it properly. For example, some models, they may have a freezer may have an ice maker that's not connected to the main computer. Some ovens have a light that's not connected to the main computer. So they'll have a Shabbos mode and it'll solve a lot of problems, but it can't solve the light in the oven or the ice maker in the freezer because it's not connected to the main computer.

If it's not connected to the computer, they have to be disabled separately. And these instructions you'll be able to find from the certifier in their instructions on how to use that model properly. So obviously it's very important to know what the rules are from the certifier and how to use the Shabbos mode properly and what it does or doesn't solve is very important. When you say certifier, you mean that an actual kashrus organization is certifying the Shabbos mode on an oven? Is that usually the way it works? That should be the way it works.

Okay. But it's a very important first step is to find out if there is a certifier. At this point, almost all models on the market are going to have some form of a Shabbos mode. Some of them don't have a certifier.

So there's no one who's looked at this from a halachic standpoint and said this is kosher to use at all. So the company did that on their own volition? They decided to have a Shabbos mode to attract Orthodox consumers? So for one reason or another, sometimes it's there because it was designed at one point with a kashrus agency and then they no longer work with that or they stuck it on a model that they couldn't fully solve and an agency can't certify. So the first step is to make sure there is a certification agency. If there's no certification, no certifier on the Shabbos mode, there's no way to know that it's working properly unless you do extensive testing yourself, which is above the average consumer's skills.

I would also add that generally, if you're buying your appliances from a frum purveyor of appliances, usually that frum proprietor will be able to tell you which appliances have, you know, I'll use Town Appliance as an example, one of the largest provider of appliances to the frum community. I know that they're very well versed in the Shabbos mode options in various appliances. So, you know, that's a place to start, but like you said, you have to verify with each individual whatever agency it is that's certifying it. Now, from what I understand, which is absolutely mind-boggling, is that tremendous michsholim have come out of the Shabbos mode, strangely, because Shabbos mode is there to solve Shabbos problems.

But unfortunately, either due to ignorance or just, you know, assumptions or lack of awareness, people have made assumptions about Shabbos mode. For example, there's an issur of bishul on Shabbos. You're not allowed to cook on Shabbos. No matter how your oven is designed, you can't cook on Shabbos.

But are people not realizing that Shabbos mode may solve an appliance issue, but you still can't take food and cook it in an oven even if it has a Shabbos mode? If you could elaborate on that. Yeah, so that's very important. When the first Shabbos modes came out, they called it Shabbos mode, and then it was discovered that people were using it to cook on Shabbos. Putting it into Shabbos mode meant that the oven is now solved.

So it's crucial to remember the regular halachos of an oven apply, the regular issur of bishul is going to apply. The shehiya is still going to apply, which means you can't leave raw food in an oven from before Shabbos without a blech, and ovens don't have a blech. Chazara, you can't put stuff back into an oven on Shabbos even if it's fully cooked, again, because it needs a blech. So most ovens do not have a system to have a blech.

Even in a lot of, even in Shabbos mode, they may not have a system that allows for that. And those halachos continue to apply as well. Shabbos mode has also introduced new angles to various challenges, which means depending on how the Shabbos mode was built, certain activities may or may not have been allowed in doing it. The Star-K in a lot of their models, they say very clearly that after you open the oven door, you can't close it with any food still inside on Shabbos.

And this is related to the original psak of Rav Shlomo Zalman and the original machlokes with thermostats, but it's since then morphed into the way they've designed their Shabbos mode. So you're saying, you're saying to clarify, this Star-K caveat, even if the food is fully cooked, there are certain ovens that once you open it up, you can't close it on Shabbos. That's what you're saying. That is correct.

And the Star-K makes this clear in their, in their manual, that that is not allowed to close it. So these, the consumer needs to be aware of what the Shabbos mode is, how the Shabbos mode's working, and what it does or doesn't allow even with things as simple as what you may have been used to doing for many years is to have your soup in there and your chicken for Friday night and have your cholent for Shabbos day in there, and you take your soup and chicken out and close it and leave your cholent in there for Shabbos day. That may not be allowed even in certain Shabbos modes. Depending on, depending on the model.

This would depend on the model and how the Shabbos mode itself was built, so it's going to depend. Got it. So basically we can't give a blanket statement about any appliances here because you're saying it varies from appliance to appliance and from certifier to certifier. So unfortunately we like to give practical advice, but as much as we like to do that, we can't do that, you're saying, because it varies.

It does vary model to model, it does vary also from certifier to certifier. The new GE models, just to give very practical advice, GE has two things. Number one is that some of their ovens actually have two Shabbos modes together. So you can get a GE, a GE oven, and it'll have two Shabbos modes available for it.

And one is going to be completely uncertified and the other one is certified by the OU. Doing the same exact thing or doing... They are working differently. They're two separate settings, two separate modes on the oven.

The way to access them would be different. But you can buy a GE model and assume that it has and end up in the wrong Shabbos mode that's completely uncertified. So with GE ovens, the ones that are completely uncertified, we don't, no one knows what they do. No one from our community has been checking on that.

But on the certified version with the OU, it's certified by the OU and it has, they've solved a lot of problems and you can read their instructions for it. So they have, they do solve a lot more issues in certain ways, but it does have a different type of Shabbos mode than a lot of other brands that have a regular Shabbos mode. The Star-K also has an additional Shabbos mode called what they call the New Shabbos mode, which also solves some of the old problems and also another very different way. So if I had to break it down, there's let's say four Shabbos modes available on the market right now in, and this is for the American USA consumer.

Obviously in Eretz Yisroel it's a whole different parsha, which is not, we're not going to discuss here. But there's four Shabbos modes. One is the company's own engineer stuck the name on and no one knows what it does. Number two is the Star-K, who's been the real pioneer in Shabbos modes in building that relationship with appliance manufacturers, their regular Shabbos mode.

The Star-K more recently has come up with something they call the New Shabbos mode, which also solves problems that a lot of people wanted to be solved as the shailas got more severe. And then GE has a relationship with the OU where they have their own what they call Enhanced Shabbos mode. So yeah, it does sound a little similar, the names. A regular Shabbos mode versus a New Shabbos mode or an Enhanced Shabbos mode or or just a Shabbos mode that's not certified at all.

Now we've been talking largely about ovens and when people hear Shabbos mode they think of ovens, but there are Shabbos modes for other appliances. There are Shabbos modes for other appliances as well. Like refrigerators? Refrigerators and ice makers, freezers, or right, refrigerators, freezers, some other small appliances. The biggest michshol happens in ovens, which is why the focus today is specifically on ovens because the biggest michshol is on ovens.

Got it. Any other thoughts on this topic before we wrap up that you would share with our viewers? So there's three things that need to happen when you're getting an oven: is to verify that there is a certifier. There is the second thing is to verify what the certifier says is allowed. And there's a third thing we didn't have a chance to discuss yet which is: it's crucial to figure out if your rov will tell you to follow the psakim of the certifier.

And that is a crucial step in this. The Shabbos modes are built based on the certifiers' psakim that they have, and they may not be universal. Sometimes I give the example of Cholov Stam. It's certified, but it still remains Cholov Stam.

So if you don't eat Cholov Stam and it's not Cholov Yisroel, it won't be for you. It won't be for you. Right. So it's crucial to understand that there are psakim involved in this.

The way they're solved is not always universally accepted, and therefore it's worth speaking with your own rov based on the Shabbos mode you have and how it works to figure out what may or may not be acceptable for you in your house. I want to point out something also which we didn't mention before is the Shabbos, but there's also Yom Tov. You know that people and again you'll tell me if this is correct, but on Yom Tov you may be allowed to cook, right, bishul's mutar on Yom Tov, but you'll still need your Shabbos mode on your oven to solve other issues like the electrical issues and lights and so on and so forth. So you mention bishul sheyei chazarah and things like that.

Those may not be issues on Yom Tov, but a Shabbos mode is still going to be vitally important and you have to speak to your possek or whoever it is, the certifier, to find out what the parameters are for Yom Tov use. Correct. So to discuss a specific sheilah that's on ovens, which would be very nogeiah for Yom Tov and are really very nogeiah for Shabbos, is in more recently, it's not recent as in the last five years, this has already been going on for well over ten years or longer, they've put a door switch on. So we're used to door switches from our fridges and from our ovens.

We open the oven door, the fridge door, the lights go on, and then we close it, the lights go off. So thirty years ago, forty years ago, we just unscrewed the light bulb, and that was the only thing the door switch did. Since then, these door switches have started controlling a lot of various parts of the fridge and oven. And to focus on ovens specifically, a lot of door switches today when you open the oven door, it turns off the heating in there.

So until now, the sheilah has always been when you open the oven door, the cold air comes in and turns the fire on. What's happening now in a lot of ovens or almost maybe even most ovens, you open the oven door, the oven says, "Hey, the door's open, there's no purpose in heating this, let's turn it off until they close the door." So there is a bit of a safety element there, it's also much more efficient that way. So when you open the oven door, you're turning the oven off, and almost even more severely, when you close the oven door, you're not just closing the oven door, you're actually turning the oven back on. And this is not happening by magic, it's happening by a physical door switch.

So with the oven door closing, you're pushing a button which tells the oven, "Please turn yourself back on." And obviously, pushing a button directly on Shabbos to turn your oven on is going to be assur according to everyone. But that is one of the most severe sheilahs on ovens, and that will be a problem on Yom Tov as well. Happens to be in the oven that I have in my house, which we purchased from Town Appliance, we got a magnet from them. They supplied it for us to put on the I guess it's the door switch that de-compresses the button so that it stays pushed down and it won't trigger anything.

But that's just one example of addressing that problem. Right, and the various Shabbos modes solve that problem differently of a door switch. The various Shabbos modes solve it differently, and some rabbonim recommend even in Shabbos mode to make sure you have that magnet. Right, exactly.

In my case, we still need to put the oven into Shabbos mode. So you really need to do multiple things. You do both. You're putting the oven into Shabbos mode because of a whole series of issues that it solves, and then you're putting the magnet on essentially because your own rov is saying this one particular issue we don't like the way the Shabbos mode solves it and therefore you should use a magnet to disable that manually and independently.

So sometimes when you have an oven, so the Shabbos mode will tell you you need to put it into Shabbos mode plus do this, and sometimes your rov will give you an additional step of putting a magnet over the door switch, which is very common that a lot of rabbonim give that psak to do that. Additionally, some people will do it for practical reasons because if you want to leave food in your oven on Shabbos and the Star-K Shabbos mode solves it in a way that doesn't allow for that, the magnet may help for that. Leave food in the oven in the oven on Shabbos. Again, all with the guidance of your rav on what's appropriate for leaving food in the oven on Shabbos and opening and closing the oven door on Shabbos.

Got it, Rabbi Katz. Thanks for joining us. Thank you for informing us about the Shabbos mode issues. Again, to our viewers and listeners, without a doubt, they should consult their rav and posek and speak to the respective certifiers of various appliances to get the full picture of what's necessary.

But thank you for being here and giving us this information. We greatly appreciate it. Thank you for having me. Behatzlacha in shmiras Shabbos and behatzlacha for Klal Yisrael.

Continued hatzlacha. Thank you.