L.T.K. Q&A: Shabbos Shailos

Part 3 of our Q&A series with Rav Shmuel Fuerst Dayan of Agudas Yisroel of Illinois to answer some of the recent questions that came in to us at Let's Talk Kashrus. This week's Q&A focuses on some hilchos shabbos issues.

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R’ Yitzchok Hisiger: Hello everyone and welcome back to Let’s Talk Kashrus, presented by the Kashrus Awareness Project in conjunction with the Chicago Rabbinical Council. Today I am honored to be joined by Rav Shmuel Fuerst, Dayan of Agudath Yisrael of Illinois. Thank you Rav Fuerst for joining us. We’re continuing our series here of shailos that people have submitted to Let’s Talk Kashrus.

So today we’d like to discuss various Shabbos and Yom Tov related shailos, Shabbos and Yom Tov scenarios. And the first question is, is raw meat or fish considered muktzah?

R’ Shmuel Fuerst: The Mechaber says in Shin-Ches that raw meat is chazai l'umtza, you can eat it, it’s right to it, you could chew it. You’d have to chew it. L'maisa, the Aruch HaShulchan and Rav Moshe, today people don’t eat raw meat, so memeila all raw meats or chicken or fish is considered muktzah.

And therefore you cannot metaltel it, it has the din of muktzah machmas gufo, you’re not allowed to move it even l'tzorech gufo u'mekomo.

R’ Yitzchok Hisiger: Right, so the practical questions were, could it be moved within a fridge or freezer, especially very often you’re trying to get to other foods in the fridge or freezer, number one? And number two, let's say it falls out of the fridge or freezer, could I put it back in?

R’ Shmuel Fuerst: Yes, right. Therefore, since it's a problem of muktzah, so a person before Shabbos, a woman before Shabbos she organizes the refrigerator and freezer to make sure in the front of the fridge are stuff that's ro'uy l'achila, so she shouldn't have a problem, and the stuff that's muktzah should be in the back. And the same thing in a refrigerator also, the stuff that's muktzah should be kept in the back so you shouldn't run into a problem moving, because to move on Shabbos it's muktzah.

On Yom Tov it would be muttar because to get to the ochel, so on Yom Tov there's a special halacha it's okay, you're allowed to move muktzah to get to the ochel. But on Shabbos it's a serious problem of muktzah. Therefore you should have all the raw meat and chicken in the back and the stuff like ice cream or cake what you have in the freezer and refrigerator keep in the front so you shouldn't run into the problem. If let's say by mistake you open the freezer, the freezer is full and chicken and chicken falls out, raw chicken falls out, raw meat, today raw chicken, raw meat is very expensive today, falls on the floor, and if you let it stay, and especially in the summertime, you let it stay on the floor it's going to melt and it's going to get ruined and so on.

So there's a Mishnah Berurah that brings down a machlokos Taz, Magen Avraham, and the Mishnah Berurah is machmir. However, in the sefer Shalmei Yehuda he brings down from Rav Elyashiv that in a makom hefsed meruba you could somich on the shitah of the Taz and you could pick it up and put it back into the freezer. And if you want to be machmir like the Magen Avraham, the only thing you do is kil-achar-yad, because muktzah is only muttar to move, it's muktzah machmas gufo, you're only allowed to move it kil-achar-yad. But Rav Elyashiv is meikel in a makom hefsed gadol it’s expensive, then you're allowed to put it back into the freezer.

Well what's the qualifications for hefsed gadol by a yachid? Each person is different. Some people, very wealthy people, if a piece of meat today costs twenty-five dollars means nothing to them, some people it's a supper.

R’ Yitzchok Hisiger: Okay. Do we consider double-walled thermoses as a kli rishon or a kli sheni?

R’ Shmuel Fuerst: It’s a kli sheni.

A thermos bi'klal is always considered a kli sheni and there’s no issur of hatmanah.

R’ Yitzchok Hisiger: Okay. A couple is on a Friday night walking tour in Rome, this is a real question, a couple’s on a Friday night walking tour in Rome and the guide says that she's Jewish but she carries a phone and a water bottle where there's no eruv. So here's the two questions: number one, could they continue the tour or must they stop because it's like they're causing this person who's a Yid to be mechalel Shabbos? But do they even have to believe her that she's halachically Jewish when she says so?

R’ Shmuel Fuerst: It doesn't hurt to ask her.

She says she's Jewish already, there's no reason why she should say it if she's saying it already. You should ask her how you know you're Jewish and sometimes they'll say yes, my father is Jewish, so then we know she's not Jewish. So you can ask her one or two questions and you can probably find out right away she's Jewish or not Jewish. If she's not Jewish certainly then there's no problem.

R’ Yitzchok Hisiger: Right, and if she says her mother's Jewish then she has ne'emanus to say so.

R’ Shmuel Fuerst: Yeah, for this much you have to tell her, listen, you cut the thing short, find some way it shouldn't be a chillul Hashem and cut the tour short and that's it because you're causing her to carry on Shabbos.

R’ Yitzchok Hisiger: Right. Okay, one final shaila in this category for Shabbos, Yom Tov.

Nowadays challahs are much softer than they were in the times of Shulchan Aruch. Are we still required to make an indent before making the bracha?

R’ Shmuel Fuerst: It says in Shulchan Aruch that when you wash, when you make a... Hamotzi, Lechem Mishneh, you should cut a little bit into the top of the challah and then afterwards you cut. The reason why that's done because olden times the challos were very, very hard, so it shouldn't be too big of a hefsek, so you cut it.

Today, all challos today are so soft, so this shayla was asked to Rav Moshe and Rav Moshe said you don't have to, today you don't have to make the indentation. Even though you see people still normally do, nothing wrong with doing it, nothing wrong with doing it. You're not making no, because some people say it's shalem, it's still shalem, still shalem, still shalem, so if one wants to do it, let them do it, let them continue doing it. It's still halacha, still halacha and shalem, right? Yeah, but you don't have to do it, it's not m'akeiv.

But that was the reason why, why was because it was hard to cut, so you would start cutting before to make it easier, to make it easier. Okay.