L.T.K. Q & A: Mind Your Own Business
Buying Jewish & Pas Palter In the fourth installment of the Let’s Talk Kashrus Q&A series featuring Rav Shmuel Fuerst, Dayan of Agudas Yisroel of Illinois, R' Yitzchok Hisiger presents a new set of practical shailos about supporting Jewish-owned businesses. How far should a person go to patronize a Yid when a non-Jewish store offers lower prices or greater convenience? Rav Fuerst discusses the balance between supporting fellow Yidden and the realities of price, convenience, and pas palter, including when it is permissible to purchase non-Jewish baked goods. The discussion concludes with a fascinating shailah about working as a salesman for a company that sells non-kosher products.
R’ Yitzchok Hisiger: Hello, everyone, and welcome back to Let's Talk Kashrus, presented by the Kashrus Awareness Project in conjunction with the Chicago Rabbinical Council. Today, I am joined by Rav Shmuel Fuerst, dayan of Agudas Yisroel of Illinois. Thank you, Rav Fuerst, for being here. So, we have more shailos that came in, and I'd like to present them to the rav.
Today's topic is the chiyuv of buying from a Yid. We know there's a a mitzvah vehechzakta of buying from Yidden, supporting Yidden, patronizing frum businesses, and the question is where convenience plays a role in supporting a frum Yid. Sometimes, it's more convenient to buy from a a non-Jewish proprietor. So, how far does a person have to go before it's considered a tircha when buying from a Yid?
R’ Shmuel Fuerst: First of all, in Shulchan Aruch, it's not mentioned a word.
It's not mentioned. It's only a Sifri that it's mentioned in parshas Behar, that a person should try to to solicit to go to buy from a from a Jewish from a Jewish person, Jewish owner. The question is, and another thing is, how far does it go? Since it's not mentioned in Shulchan Aruch, there's a Teshuvos Rema. There are other poskim that discuss this, and they say like this: this is the consensus.
I mean, it's a big machlokes, but ledina, we hold like the Teshuvos Rema, that if it's a davar mu'at, then you if it's a davar mu'at, then you as long as still the one, you should patronize a Yid and not a goy.
R’ Yitzchok Hisiger: Meaning davar mu'at meaning?
R’ Shmuel Fuerst: So so what's a davar mu'at is hard to say. Depends on each person. I asked this once Reb Reb Elyashiv and and Reb Yisroel Yaakov Fisher, they both said It depends on each person what a davar mu'at is.
A thousand dollars could be a lot of money for some people. Someone else, a thousand dollars is a lot of money. Sometimes, the difference of price could be a hundred thousand dollars going to two people. Depends on what what you're looking to buy.
So so davar mu'at depends on the person. So, if it's a davar mu'at, then you should patronize the Yid. It's not a davar mu'at or not. Sometimes, you go shopping for Shabbos you go shopping in let's say in Walmart, you go shopping, sometimes you buy a whole cart full of things, and it's a lot cheaper in Walmart than you go buy by a Yiddishe store on 13th Avenue.
It's a lot cheaper. So, sometimes it accumulates and it adds to a lot of money. But if it doesn't add to a lot of money, it's only davar mu'at, then lechatchilah, you should buy by a Yid. You should patronize a Yid.
R’ Yitzchok Hisiger: So, if it's only a small If the difference in price is only a small amount, you should definitely go to a Yid. And you're And the rav is saying that as far as what is considered a small or big amount depends on the person. But how about where the price is the same, but it's a question of tircha?
R’ Shmuel Fuerst: Depends what the tircha is. Is it two minutes? Is it a half hour? Depends what the tircha is.
If it's down the block, and so on. And also, the other poskim say, if it's only a small thing you're buying, let's say you want to buy a Pepsi, you want to buy a Coke, you want to buy something, and there's 7-Eleven down the block, and you go to Jewish store, it's two blocks away, you just want to buy a small thing, then zicher you can buy even by the goy then also. It's only when you go buy a lot of stuff, you go shopping for Shabbos, you go shopping for the whole family, and so on, then it accumulates a lot of money. If it's really a small amount and it's a one-time thing, then, for sure, you can go to the goy.
That's how some of the poskim say.
R’ Yitzchok Hisiger: Right. This question of buying from Yidden versus goyim is definitely very prevalent nowadays because it's become so common for people to buy items online from from non-Jewish vendors. It's a lot more convenient, yeah.
is a lot more convenient, and for some people, they're buying, except for their basic groceries, they're literally buying everything that they need from online. So is that is that Can one buy Can one just buy all their items from from an online vendor if that's more convenient?
R’ Shmuel Fuerst: Yeah, sure. That's called a tircha. That's considered a tircha.
If you can buy it online and it's all shipped to you, and then you have to go out and spend a half hour, an hour out there shopping, considered a tircha.
R’ Yitzchok Hisiger: Right. One more question that comes up when buying from from Jewish stores versus non-Jewish stores is benogeia pas palter. There are many items of pas palter category that either are much cheaper when you buy it from from ShopRite or Walmart or stores like that, from non-Jewish companies, and they may be cheaper, they may be Taste better.
taste better, they may have items that don't exist in a bishul Yisroel form.
R’ Shmuel Fuerst: And also, it could be different hours. A Jewish store is open from 9:00 to 5:00 or 9:00 to 6:00, and they're open 24 24 hours a day.
R’ Yitzchok Hisiger: 24 hours a day, right, right, right.
It's convenient. So, what guidance could the rav give as far as pas palter?
R’ Shmuel Fuerst: Pas palter, if it if the goyishe food tastes better, and tastes better and it's cheaper and so on, then Shulchan Aruch says clearly then it's okay. You're allowed to buy pas palter. Not just Stella D'oro cookies.
Right, no. Any type of cookie, right, yeah. But if they're a lot cheaper, then You're allowed you're allowed to buy Stella D'oro if it tastes better. A lot of times, like people say it tastes better, and it's fresher.
Sometimes you buy in a Yiddishe store, it could be sitting out there for for a couple of days, and this one every day they have a large overturn.
R’ Yitzchok Hisiger: Is there a makom l'hachmir that people should not, or?
R’ Shmuel Fuerst: It's a nice thing to be it's a nice thing to be machmir, but b'din it's mutar. It's a nice thing to be machmir. It's also you should support, vehechzakta bo.
You should give if everyone goes on Amazon, they Won't have parnassah. Won't have parnassa , vehechzakta bo. You should buy you should buy from Jewish business. Right.
R’ Yitzchok Hisiger: One final question in this category of of patronizing non-Jewish companies or businesses: can one be a salesman for a non-Jewish company?
R’ Shmuel Fuerst: In other words, the shaileh is like this. There's issur sechar devarim assurim. You're not allowed to do business with with treif stuff. So to own treif stuff and to sell it, that's assur.
It's clear in Shulchan Aruch, according to rov poskim, it's issur d'Oraisa, except in the noda beyehuda who holds it is d'Rabbanan, according to all poskim also it's issur d'Oraisa. To do sechar devarim assurim, on things which are assur d'Oraisa. So the question is, can you be a can you be a salesman? In other words, you don't own the you don't own the food, but you're selling the food and so on. So the Darkei Teshuvah brings down a machlokes Beis Shlomo and the Shoel U'meishiv, if it's mutar or assur.
Beis Shlomo assers and the Shoel U'meishiv is meikel. I asked this Reb Moshe many years ago, cuz it was nogeia a shaileh I had, and Reb Moshe says, "Men zol zein somech an di meikilim." That's how he answered me. So he's meikel. As long as you don't own it, you could do sechora with it and so on.
The issur sechora is when you own it; if you don't own it, there's no issur sechora.
R’ Yitzchok Hisiger: Okay. Thank you so much.
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