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On this episode of Let’s Talk Kashrus, Rabbi Yitzchok Hisiger is joined by Rabbi Dovi Goldstein, Managing Director of Kosher SA, for a fascinating look into the world of kosher safaris in South Africa. From luxury five-star lodges with sealed kosher kitchens and mashgichim flown in on demand, to self-drive family safari adventures with coolers and portable braais, Rabbi Goldstein explains how travelers can experience the African wilderness without compromising on kashrus. The conversation explores the unique challenges and opportunities involved in certifying safari environments deep in the jungle, far from civilization. Along the way, listeners get an inside look at one of South Africa’s most remarkable and unexpected kosher industries. R’ Yitzchok Hisiger: Hello everyone and welcome back to Let's Talk Kashrus, presented by the Kashrus Awareness Project in conjunction with the Chicago Rabbinical Council. Today I am privileged to be joined by Rabbi Dovi Goldstein, MD at Kosher SA, that South Africa. Thank you, Rabbi Goldstein for being here. R’ Dovi Goldstein: Thank you so much, it's a great pleasure. R’ Yitzchok Hisiger: Now there is another, there is another famous Rabbi Goldstein from South Africa, that's the Chief Rabbi, which you're not yet. R’ Dovi Goldstein: I'm not the Chief Rabbi. R’ Yitzchok Hisiger: You're the other Rabbi Goldstein from South Africa. R’ Dovi Goldstein: That's right and it's a privilege because I shared an office or the back of an office with him, but we're not actually related, but he is a dear mentor and friend. R’ Yitzchok Hisiger: But it's good to literally have you here from Johannesburg, South Africa here on the East Coast to be able to do this interview and conversation. So you head the organization in South Africa, the Kashrus organization called Kosher SA, Kosher South Africa. That's right. You're the MD which is the Managing Director. And today we'd like to talk to you about the topic of Kashrus and Safaris. First of all, for those of our listeners who don't know what a safari is, tell us what a safari is and then you'll discuss how to certify a safari. R’ Dovi Goldstein: Fantastic. So a safari's a broad term. Generally it means that you're going into a wild place, and it's a really wild place, so it's not a manufactured wild place, it's not a zoo. It's wild and things happen in the way that Hakadosh Baruch Hu created in the beginning of time. Nothing's changed in many of these places. And the idea is to go there and to just be part of nature and to view nature, obviously in the safety of your own vehicle or of a safari vehicle, because these animals will kill you. So there's the big five, lions and leopards, buffaloes, elephants, etc. And the point is that you're going into a very natural environment that is undeveloped, some places there's never been development, so it hasn't even been rehabilitated. And it's just a very magical place and some of these places are enormous, like the Kruger National Park which is right by our doorstep, four hours away from Johannesburg by car, and people go there because it's just a phenomenal experience and for many people it's a bucket list experience in their lives, people spend time there. R’ Yitzchok Hisiger: So people go on vacation to safaris and they spend several days at a time in a safari environment, they'll stay in a hotel or something of that sort. R’ Dovi Goldstein: Absolutely. So people would go there for a week at a time or for three days at a time, four days at a time, some are ten days at a time. There's some, we've met an American couple, Jewish American couple that comes here for three months. They're retired, they spend three months on safari every single year. R’ Yitzchok Hisiger: Really? R’ Dovi Goldstein: Which is just phenomenal, but it is something which is remarkable that a week on safari often feels like you've been away for a month or for two months because you're just in such a different framework and your mind's changed that you come out of there and you just feel rejuvenated. R’ Yitzchok Hisiger: Wow, that must be why people do that. You're right. But what Kashrus complications are there when people go to a safari? First of all, what are you certifying there? R’ Dovi Goldstein: So there's a couple different ways to do it. So let's call it right at the top, there's some very expensive safaris which are pretty much geared to the American market or to the European market and these are very exclusive safaris. I went to go and check one out a number of years ago and I always do my research beforehand, why do you want us and I went onto their website and it said their room was like, I don't know, five thousand dollars a night or something like that. But then it said take a suite, fine, not so unusual. Then it said take a corner for like five suites, and then it was like no, take the whole place for like whatever it was, a hundred thousand dollars a night and I said to the guys, I said who's taking that? They said no, when stars come, they always take the whole facility. So that's the highest end. So we've got about eight safari lodges is what they called that have a Kosher certified kitchen. So that kitchen's locked all year round. Wow. And only when it's booked for a Kosher consumer, you fly in a Mashgiach, we open the locks, we break the seals, all the food is flown in and it's very gourmet. So that's the highest level of safari. But let's talk there's a whole gamut, when we go on safari we obviously, living there we don't go on such a safari like that. We'll go what's called a self-drive safari. So you're staying in a vehicle, you're staying in a resort, you're bringing your own food. We do this as a family once or twice a year, which is a great Bracha and it's just incredible to be part of that kind of thing. There's no one driving you, we're driving ourselves in our own vehicles and it's just a very magical experience, very close to nature and just very close to something very real. R’ Yitzchok Hisiger: So if you're not on the high end and you're on what I would call the low end and you go yourself in your vehicle, do you need and could you get Kosher food? R’ Dovi Goldstein: So what's remarkable about South Africa is that besides for meat, and let's say Pas Yisroel, and wine, the penetration of Kosher products throughout South Africa is incredible. Incredibly accessible. So you can literally go with a cooler box of meat, and you know, like Kiddish wine or whatever you want, and everything else you can buy in the villages or the towns around these safari areas. So you don't actually need to prepare so extensively. There's plenty of things to buy. R’ Yitzchok Hisiger: Which we'll discuss in a separate conversation about South Africa in general and the kashrus there. But this is more about the safaris. Now the bulk of the safari supervision that you're talking about are these high-end type of arrangements where someone might be paying $5,000 a night for a room? R’ Dovi Goldstein: So the high-end ones where you are having a mashgiach there, those are high-end. There is also like a middle tier where it is not you know $2,000 or $3,000 or $4,000 a night. And they could have a kitchen that is kosher certified, obviously we'd have to send a mashgiach. But there's many ways to do it. And as I said, it's pretty incredible that you can go there fully immersed, you know, we're talking about many miles away from any civilization and have a gourmet experience. Experience. Yeah. R’ Yitzchok Hisiger: Have you ever served as a mashgiach in that environment or have you only kind of overseen the operations? R’ Dovi Goldstein: I've overseen it but I have been a few times with training of the staff. So it's not an official trip, right? So I've been there for a night or two nights and we train the staff. Unfortunately, I don't do it enough. When I took on the role, I said this is going to be what I'm going to be doing, you know what I mean? Sounds very attractive. Very attractive. Unfortunately, I don't have enough time. I've got a great RC, Rabbi Alon Joseph. He travels to these places probably every month. He's training, he's meeting with guests, he's meeting with new lodges. We're trying to expand this. We believe it's one of the greatest products that South Africa has to export. Right. R’ Yitzchok Hisiger: That no one else really could offer, right? You're saying eight lodgings that you have in the vicinity of the safaris in South Africa. And these are all about four hours from Johannesburg? R’ Dovi Goldstein: Let's say between four and six hours. But at these very high-end places, people are flying in private jets and they're going, they've often got a private landing strip. So people don't even come to Johannesburg sometimes, they fly directly in and it's just a remarkable experience. R’ Yitzchok Hisiger: By the way, after this episode, get ready for an uptick in reservations. R’ Dovi Goldstein: That's what we're hoping, right? R’ Yitzchok Hisiger: Before we close the conversation, what would you say because it's a very, very unique arrangement, very, very different than certifying a more conventional environment, what would you say is the biggest kashrus challenge in producing that type of service? R’ Dovi Goldstein: So a place that has a dedicated kitchen is generally pretty easy because it's a kitchen, it's all set up, it's totally kosher, it's locked up, milk, meat, separate milk, meat, everything. And these places because they're so high-end and five-star do things properly. So nothing, there's no shortcuts. So actually to certify a safari at the highest end is not difficult. But I think it is important to note, is that because money's not an issue? Money's not an issue. Exactly. So they'll have the best quality cutlery and stoves and they're not afraid to do that because their guests are paying so much. But I think what is important to highlight is that let's call it middle-end and even let's call it lower-end, there are so many other ways to do it. And obviously it can get challenging if you don't have a mashgiach there. We wouldn't certify such a place. But there's plenty of ways to also go on safari without it having to be high-end. As I say, many families, most South African families travel to safari and they, they bring their own food. And they bring their own food or they buy food in the vicinity. They bring their own braai—we call it a braai, you call it a barbecue. They bring their own barbecue, they bring their own pots and pans, and it's not very difficult to have a safari and what I would like to say is people shouldn't be afraid when they see the high-end prices to think you know that's the only way to do it. There's plenty of other ways to do it and with research and obviously with AI today, there's many ways to do it and it's something which I would believe almost anyone could achieve if they put their mind to it and they'll find a price point which works for them. Or I imagine they could reach out to you and your office, right, for information and guidance. Absolutely. And if they go onto our website which is koshersa.co.za or za, koshersa.co.za. Dot za. We call it a zebra, right, a zebra, you call it a zebra. And if they go onto our website they can find it and obviously they can contact us. We have many people especially during the vacation time that join our WhatsApp lines and join our communication channels and they can ask us for advice and we'd be so happy to help them find a way to do it. R’ Yitzchok Hisiger: Okay Rabbi Goldstein, this is a fascinating topic. Thank you so much for being here and we look forward to speaking to you.

Part 2 of the sous-vide, can it be used on shabbos or yomtov? Rabbi Dovid Cohen - Administrative Rabbinical Coordinator at the cRc, fills us in on potential shabbos issues with using a sous-vide. R’ Yitzchok Hisiger: Welcome to Let's talk Kashrus, presented by the Chicago Rabbinical Council. Today I am joined by Rabbi Dovid Cohen, administrative Rabbinic coordinator at the Chicago Rabbinical Council. Rabbi Cohen, how are you? R’ Dovid Cohen: I am good, thank you. R’ Yitzchok Hisiger: So we previously spoke about the Sous-vide device or machine, and you gave a fascinating overview of what this device is. Today I'd like to hear from you about the halachic ramifications of the Sous-vide in relation to Hilchos Shabbos about leaving food in a Sous-vide on Shabbos. Let's talk about that. R’ Dovid Cohen: Okay, so before we start, I have to say this. It's obvious that you can't put food in on Shabbos. Okay, you're not allowed to cook on Shabbos, so it's obviously you can't put like as you said, the question is, can I put in food before Shabbos? Okay, so there's two potential issues that we could think about. The first is called Shehiya. Shehiya means is the Chachomim said you're not allowed to put food in to cook before Shabbos into a into a fire or wherever it is because they were concerned that if you do that, you might end up wanting the food to cook a little faster and you'll adjust the flames to make the food cook a little faster. So they said you can't put food in, so which of course is what we're doing, we're putting food in to cook. Now there are several exceptions to when you are allowed to. We all do that. We put in food, we have food that's hot for Shabbos. So there's some exceptions to that rule, and let's think about those different exceptions and whether they apply. Okay, three main exceptions. One is if something called if you have put in raw food. If you put in food that will for sure not be ready to eat on Friday night, there's no question it won't be ready, and it for sure will be ready on Shabbos morning, then the Shehiya doesn't apply. And it's logical because why would I adjust the flame? It won't be ready tonight anyhow, it will for sure be ready tomorrow. I have nothing to gain by adjusting the flame. So in some cases of Sous-vide, that's that's appropriate because if I have a food that takes twenty-four hours to cook, there's no way I can make it higher, it's not going to cook any faster in time for tonight, but by tomorrow it'll for sure be ready. That would be okay. But most Sous-vide is not like that. Most of it takes just a couple of hours and if I were to adjust the flame I could get it ready faster and it could be ready for tonight, so that won't help us. Okay, the other one which people are very familiar with is that if you have a blech, okay it's called grufa u-ketuma. You can leave food on the fire if you have a blech because the blech is a reminder don't adjust the flame. That's it's a reminder they don't touch this flame, you're not supposed to do that on Shabbos, so don't adjust it. Okay, that would be great, except how you going to make a blech on here? What are you going to do? Where are you going to put the blech? Where are you how you going to cover the fire? It doesn't there's no setup that could allow you to how would I cover this fire? The fire is in this rod, in this circulator. How how am I going to it's not realistically there's no way to do that. Okay, but what I can do is but the third answer the third solution will potentially help people. And that is if the food is cooked enough, I'll tell you what enough means in a second, if it's cooked enough then you're allowed to do that because the Chachomim said you know what, it's so it's cooked so well you don't have any need really to adjust it to make it a little better cooked than that you won't forget to do that on Shabbos. Okay, so the Rama says what we follow he says the minhag is to follow the opinion that says is it's enough if it's ke-ma'achal ben drosai. If it's passably edible, that's good enough to allow you to leave it on from before Shabbos. Ke-ma'achal ben drosai the Mishna Berura says we should do means half cooked. Well what do what does it mean half cooked? Excuse me for that we go to the Chazon Ish. Chazon Ish says when you want to decide something is how cooked it is, is it half cooked, look at the cook time. How long does it take to cook this food? After half that amount of time it's half cooked. Well in a regular piece of chicken I'm not sure how you do that, but in Sous-vide it's really easy because you put in the program how long you want it to cook for. You say cook this for four hours, okay you tell the machine cook it at this temperature for this many hours. So you just have to make sure you did it half before Shabbos. If your program is three hours then it's got to be hot already an hour and a half before Shabbos and then it'll have been half cooked, in which case you avoid the problem of Shehiya. The food is passably edible and therefore you there's no concern of Shehiya as long as you get it passably edible in this case means is half the time of the cook time. Okay so as I as we spoke about last time the Sous-vide machine you tell it the temperature you want it and once it hits that temperature it starts counting down. So as long as you hit that temperature and start the countdown half of the way before Shabbos then you're good. So let's say three hours you have to hit the temperature hour and a half before Shabbos and then it will be good enough. Got it. So that's as far as Shehiya. That's for the Shehiya part. Shehiya means we're not allowed to leave food in that's one problem. Okay, that's the that's one issue to deal with. The second issue is called Hatmanah. Hatmanah is that we're not allowed to take food even before Shabbos and wrap it up in a way that it'll get hotter because it's wrapped up. So like the classic case for us is if I have a hot water kettle a hot water urn and I don't I want it to be even hotter than it usually is, so I wrap it up with towels or some kind of, something around it. So I'm wrapping it up, I'm insulating it, and it gets hotter because there's a heating coil in it. That's called Hatmanah, in a way that makes it hotter, you're not allowed to do that from before Shabbos. Okay, if you wrap it up all the way. So you say, okay, what does it have to do with this? Where's that, where's the Hatmanah, where's the towels? I'm not doing any towels or something around, I'm not wrapping it up in anything. So here we come to a Taz, and the Taz says that if you put something, submerge something in water, that is Hatmanah. The water is the insulator, the water is insulating the food that's in there. Okay, it doesn't, when you think about it at first it doesn't seem like that, right? You think, you're thinking Hatmanah is like I put a blanket around it, that's Hatmanah. But he says no, Hatmanah is also, the water could be the Hatmanah also. Okay, so is that what's going on here? Remember, our meat is sitting there soaked in a pouch on the bottom in the water, so it's being, it's in the water. So is that Hatmanah? Now if that's Hatmanah, we're finished. We won't be able to use this on Shabbos. Okay, because Hatmanah, it doesn't help what we said beforehand about being mainly cooked and this and that, none of that's going to help us. So this question I didn't see people talking about it specifically, like written Tshuvos about specifically about Hatmanah for Sous Vide, but they talk about a very similar case. Okay, and let's see how it compares. And that is people want to put Kishka into their Cholent, and the Kishka is wrapped in foil. Right. So the question is, is it Hatmanah? Because the Kishka is being heated by the Cholent that's all around it. So before Shabbos I want to put it in. So I put the piece of Kishka into the Cholent and is it considered Hatmanah to put that in? So most people, most Poskim held that that was Mutar. But if we think about why they held it's Mutar we'll see it's not so clear that it's going to apply to Sous Vide also. Okay. One, some Poskim say the reason why it's Mutar is because the taste travels back and forth between the Cholent and the Kishka. It's just in a foil that you put into the Cholent for a reason, because you want it to get the taste of it. So it passes back and forth. Okay. And that's why it's Mutar, it's really part of the Cholent. Well, that doesn't work for Sous Vide because the, it's in a sealed pouch. There's no taste transferring back and forth between the meat and the water. No, that's not going to work. Okay. Other people said is well, it's Mutar because the foil that's around the, this is a very popular, people have said this. The foil around the Kishka is just there to hold it together, give it shape. You don't want it to disintegrate into the Cholent. So it doesn't count. Just ignore it. Pretend that there's no foil. Let's say there would be no foil, what would you say? Not Hatmanah, it's just cooking, it's just part of the Cholent. You don't say the potatoes are having Hatmanah, it's silly, it's just part of the Cholent. So it's just another piece of the Cholent over here. They said so the foil doesn't count. So they say here also the bag, the pouch is not for any special reason, the pouch is just to keep the water out. So what's the difference, the pouch keeps the water out and the foil keeps the Cholent out, it's the same idea. Same idea. But it's not really, I don't think that that's an accurate description because what does it mean? So the foil we won't count the foil. What's the end of the sentence? The foil doesn't count and therefore it's part of the Cholent. Right? That's the end of the sentence. The foil doesn't count so it's just part of the Cholent. Over here what? The bag doesn't count so it's part of the water? No. What do you mean it's part of the, the water's not cooking, the water is just the way you heat it up. The water is not, no one would dream that this meat is part of the water. No, even if you ignore the pouch, you can't say the meat is part of the water. That doesn't make, that doesn't work like that. But what we do have is there's a Tshuvah in Minchas Yitzchak about this question about the Kishka in the Cholent and he brings there from Dayan Westheim wrote to him, I'll tell you why I think it's Mutar and at the end of the Tshuvah Dayan Westheim says I think that you're right about what you said. And he said is, we're looking at this wrong. Hatmanah means is don't do something that is insulating a food. But when we think about the Dinim of Hatmanah there are several examples where we look at what the person had in mind. What were you trying to do when you did this? And I'll give you an example. The Din is you're allowed to take food and wrap it in foil and put it on top of a pot of food on Shabbos. Why isn't that Hatmanah? It's wrapped in the foil, the foil is this insulator. The answer is no, because the person put it on top of there, why'd he wrap it in foil? He wrapped it in foil to keep bugs out. He wrapped it in foil so they shouldn't get dirty. That's why he did it. He's not trying to do Hatmanah. So we creep into your mind and we say why are you doing this? You did this because you were trying, you weren't trying to do Hatmanah, you weren't trying to insulate it and make it hotter, no, you had some other purpose in mind. So over here he says we see that we can creep into your mind and decide is this Hatmanah or not. So Dayan Westheim said was, he said is why is the person putting it in here? He's trying to cook. He's not trying to do Hatmanah. Hatmanah is I warm it up, I keep it warm. That's not what I'm doing, I'm trying to cook food. That's obviously what the person is trying to do. adding heat to it. No, he's cooking it. Cooking is not hatmanah. R’ Yitzchok Hisiger: Okay, so that's what Dayan Weiss said, and Dayan Weiss liked that chiluk, R’ Dovid Cohen: yes. In which case there would not be a concern of hatmanah. He's saying is you not have to be fancy and think we don't care about the foil, whether it's a taste traveler, he just says what the person's doing is obviously cooking. He's not he's not insulating, he's not warming, he's not getting heat into this thing. No, he's cooking it. It's obvious that's what he's doing. So he says that would be a reason to muttar, in which case, if you follow that opinion, then it's then it'll be perfect, there's no hatmanah issues. Just the just the shehiyah part of it which we said before. Okay. R’ Yitzchok Hisiger: Thank you so much. R’ Dovid Cohen: Sure. Great to be here.

Continuing the technology series, we are moving on to the sous-vide and the halachik challenges that arise with it. Rabbi Dovid Cohen - Administrative Rabbinical Coordinator at the cRc, fills us in on potential kashrus issues with a sous-vide.   https://askcrc.org/item/Keilim/968499 R’ Yitzchok Hisiger: Hello everyone and welcome back to Let's Talk Kashrus  presented by the Chicago Rabbinical Council. Today I am joined by Rabbi David Cohen, administrative rabbinical coordinator at the Chicago Rabbinical Council. How are you Rabbi Cohen? R’ Dovid Cohen: I'm doing fine thank you. R’ Yitzchok Hisiger: Today we'd like to discuss a very very unique item, a unique machine that people use called the sous-vide and its halachic ramifications. First let's talk about what a sous-vide is. What is it? How would you describe it? R’ Dovid Cohen: Okay, it's a really unusual way to cook. Instead of taking your piece of chicken or piece of meat and sitting it in the oven at 350 degrees, you put it into this basically into a water bath. Okay, now that sounds really strange, what in the world? So before, you don't just put it right into the water bath, you put it into a bag. It's called sous-vide because that bag you suck all the air out of it. It really means under vacuum. So you suck all the air out of this bag and you put it into the water. So the bag keeps it from getting waterlogged, okay, and you put the meat into the bag and dunk it into the water. And then what you're going to do is you're going to heat up that water to just the right temperature to cook the meat. Which is to say is you've probably heard, the government will tell you when you're cooking a piece of meat it's ready when the meat thermometer tells you it reaches 145 degrees, 165 degrees, whatever it is. That's the internal temperature because the cooking does something to the meat, whatever it does to make it edible. And when it's ready, it's gotten up to a certain temperature. So basically you program your machine to heat the water to exactly that temperature. So that means is instead of at 350 in your oven, it's always cooking at 150 or 160 or whatever temperature you cooked. So it's really slow. Cooks at a really slow temperature, but you can't burn your food because it can never get hotter than what it's supposed to be. And it takes really hours and hours and hours to cook the food. Instead of an hour it could take three four hours. And again the idea is to be able to cook it more accurately. More accurately, more evenly, without burning it. And because it's in the bag you don't lose any of the moisture, everything stays inside of it. And it has a certain kind of cooking that people appreciate. R’ Yitzchok Hisiger: Have you ever tasted meat from a sous-vide? R’ Dovid Cohen: I have not. Sorry. Sorry, I'm just the rabbi side of it, not the chef side of it. R’ Yitzchok Hisiger: I'm curious to hear what the difference between the taste between a sous-vide and a conventional oven is. R’ Dovid Cohen: You have to ask somebody else. Sorry I'm not the guy to answer that question. Okay, but so that's what people do. And it's a kind of cooking. It's not the kind of thing like oh gosh we're going to eat in 15 minutes. You have to be well planned in advance and it takes many hours to cook it. Like there are things that will take a roast could take 24 hours to cook. A piece of meat might take three four hours to cook. So it's a slow process and somehow it makes food that tastes whatever it is and some people appreciate that. Okay, so first now that we understand what that machine is, I'm sorry, I forgot to describe the main part of the machine. There's something called an immersion circulator. And it looks, basically when I told you put the meat into a big bucket of water, into a pot, into a container, that's any container you want to use. But the real what makes it work is this immersion circulator. And that is it's a rod, you could see it here in the animation, it's a rod that sticks into the water and has in it a heating coil so it heats up the water and has a fan or an impeller on the bottom of it to circulate the water. So it, you program it on the top, you push in I want it to be at 145 degrees for six hours. Okay, and that's what it'll do. It'll heat up the water, once it gets the water to temperature, it'll clock down from you said six hours and then after six hours it'll turn itself off. So what it does is that circulator circulates the water and keeps all the water at exactly the right temperature. Exactly the temperature you picked and I forgot what I said 150, that's what it does, 150 degrees for the entire six hours. And the coil goes on and off just to you know keep it at the right temperature and this fan is spinning around keeping the water moving. And basically your meat sits there on the bottom in the bag or in the pouch and it does its cooking. Okay, so the first question people have about it is can I use it for milchigs  and fleishigs ? Okay, can I make in it something milchigs  and then something fleishigs ? Now there's not so much that people would make milchigs , but I guess people can. So the answer would be no they can't do that. And the reason is because although the food is inside a pouch, the food never touches the water. But the din  is that ta'am  passes through a kli also. So even though it's in a pouch, the ta'am  can pass through. So basically if I used it today for meat, then it became fleishig . And if I want to use it tomorrow for milchig , I wouldn't be allowed to. I could use it for fish which is a very is a popular thing. People use meat and fish. And that's because meat and fish you just can't cook together. But you could use the same pot as long as it's clean. So if today I put in meat, tomorrow I empty it out and I want to put in fish I could do that. But not milchigs  and fleishigs . Now that leads to another question which people have is okay I want to use it for milchigs  or more likely I want to use it for Pesach . Okay what can I do now? Can I kasher  this machine? You told me okay you told me don't use it for both, but what happens I want to kasher  it? What happens if I bought one or used one from someone who doesn't keep kosher ? So now I have a treif  one; okay, he used it for treif  meat. Can I kasher  it to be able to use it now for kosher  meat? So, I'm going to give you the short version of it. We have a shiur  on it, more complicated. We'll send people the link if they want to to hear the shiur that there is about this. But the thing is like this: at first you look at it and you say, of course I could kasher  it. It's meant to go into boiling hot water. It's meant for hot water. That's the whole thing is designed for that. Right. So easy enough. Boil up water. Boil up water and dunk it in. Okay, now you have to be a little, if I could use the word generous, which is to say is you're supposed to go the water up till this high, you have to kasher  a little more than that because water splashes around a little bit. Right. But and you can't get the very top of it because the electronics probably wouldn't be able to handle the water of it. But it's meant to be in water. So you say, easy enough, easy enough. I'll boil up a pot of water, I'll dunk it in and and so on, everything's perfect. I'll kasher  it. That sounds like the easy part. Right. But here's the complication. Everything's got it, you always there's always going to be a catch, right? And the catch is that the Rema  says things that have little cracks and crevices you can't kasher . Well, if you look at, if you pick up your sous vide, this immersion circulator, you'll see there's a zillion cracks and crevices. There's the holes where the water comes into, there's the fan, there's a heating coil, all that all stuck all together. It's all kinds of cracks and crevices where it's really hard to get it clean. Okay. So that's the question. Can I kasher  this if I can't get it clean? The Rema  says if you have things like that, you can't kasher them at all. So that's our that's the potential issue. Okay, well what's, so okay, what's the other side? The other side is that wait a second, no food ever touches this machine. Remember the food's... It's only ta'am , right? Yeah, the food's in a bag. The food's in a pouch. Okay, so I mean it happens that a pouch breaks but basically the food's in a pouch. So if the food's in a pouch, how's food ever going to get stuck in those little holes? Water is going to go in there but water's going to go in and out. Nothing's going to happen with the water. So on that's one side to say, come on guys, nothing's going to get stuck in the little holes because there's only water passing through the holes. That's all that's in there. Okay. But then there's another side. The other side is well, people who cook food don't cook it in a lab setup. What I mean is just because the food's in the pouch doesn't mean they don't get greasy hands touching the outside of the pouch and getting food on the outside. It doesn't mean that there aren't things, grease and all kinds of stuff going on in there. And there's another side which is imagine if food actually did get caught in there. You wouldn't even begin to be able to clean it out. It's hopeless. It's totally hopeless. It's not even like something with little holes that you could try. You can't even try over here. So people take different approaches. At the CRC we tell people that they could kasher  it from treif  to kosher  but not for Pesach . Pesach where chametz  is b'mashehu  they shouldn't, they shouldn't do that. But others would say is, come on, even for Pesach  you could do it because realistically no food gets into there. And the truth is also it's pretty hard to think of a case where someone would make chametz  in there. It's mainly for meat and fish. Right. We can come up with cases. You wouldn't believe there are people who actually bake cakes in there. Oh really? It sounds strange as it is, but yes there's such a thing, people make cakes in there. But also, but imagine if you cut a knife, cut with a chametz-dik  knife, you may cut food, cut an onion in there, so it could be chametz  in there. But so CRC tells people not to do it for Pesach  but for year round, we tell people they could kasher it. Okay. R’ Yitzchok Hisiger: Any final thought on the sous vide? R’ Dovid Cohen: On this part of it, no. No. For the, for the kashering and these kind of thing I think I think we covered it. Okay. R’ Yitzchok Hisiger: Thank you so much.

Today's interview focuses on a problem that many people face when kashering for Pesach. New-age technology = new-age problems. How do you kasher glass stovetops? Can they be kashered at all? What about induction stovetops? Let's hear what Rabbi Dovid Cohen - Administrative Rabbinical Coordinator at the cRc has to say on this timely topic.   R’ Yitzchok Hisiger: Hello everyone and welcome back to Let's Talk Kashrus presented by the Chicago Rabbinical Council. Today I am privileged to be joined by Rabbi Dovid Cohen, administrative rabbinical coordinator at the cRC, the Chicago Rabbinical Council. Rabbi Cohen, how are you? R’ Dovid Cohen: Amazing. R’ Yitzchok Hisiger: It's great to have you back. It's been a little while since we did an episode together. Today we'd like to discuss a very fascinating but very practical topic that's important to many people, especially as we approach Pesach  and that is glass stovetops. So tell us the halachic  status of glass stovetops as it relates to kashering  them. Can that be kashered  and if yes how? R’ Dovid Cohen: Right so that's a really good question because we're Ashkenazim  and Ashkenazim  don't kasher  glass. We know we don't kasher  glass. So your first look at it you say no this is impossible I can't possibly kasher  this material. So in order to answer that question we have to back up a drop. Okay why don't we kasher glass? Sephardim  consider glass doesn't absorb at all. So it's a chumra . The Rama  says it's a chumra that like some shitas  that it's a little bit like cheres . A little bit we treat it like a kli cheres  something made of ceramic or porcelain that we can't kasher  that the Torah says you can't kasher so glass is a little bit like that because it's made in a similar way. Okay the way they manufacture it is similar. So since it's a chumra  the Rama  says some place else whenever we're kashering  things as with libbun  as a chumra we can do a lighter kind of libbun . We call it libbun kal . You get away with not as strong of a libbun  as you would really require if it was cheres . If it was cheres  you have to put it into its burning super hot you know a thousand degrees. But for this you can get away with a little since it's only a chumra to treat it like that you get away with a lesser temperature. Okay now that lesser temperature is he describes it as kash nisraf  the amount of heat that would cause a piece of straw to burn on the other side. It's so hot but it's not as hot as libbun.   libbun  I said thousand it's probably 850 degrees but you don't have to have that hot but you still have to have like about 450 500 degrees really hot that it could burn a piece of straw on the other side. So when we as Ashkenazim  are used to saying we don't kasher glass that means we don't kasher  glass with hag'ala  with hot water. If we do libbun kal  if we heat it up with enough temperature to make it kash nisraf  to make it that hot that we can kasher like that. So that's our goal. We want to kasher  it by making it as hot as kash nisraf . We're not we can't do hag'ala  you can't pour boiling water on it like on I don't know your stone counter but you can do it by making it kash nisraf . R’ Yitzchok Hisiger: Okay we know there's a principle of k'bolo kach polto . So how does that apply to glass where we're you know how does that determine what type of kashering  you could do for a glass? R’ Dovid Cohen: Okay so k'bolo kach polto  is used for two purposes. It's to decide which type of kashering  it needs does it need libbun  or hag'ala  like that type and within those what the level of it. Let's say if I only poured something chometz  onto my counter I can kasher  it by pouring something onto it. So within the levels I can choose that. But what when I'm in the when I require libbun  like on a glass I need libbun  you don't get to choose what temperature it is. You can't say as I'll do a little higher or lower based on how hot the food was when it goes in. That doesn't work. In hag'ala  it does. In hag'ala  if it was only 160 degrees I could kasher  with 160 degrees but in libbun  kind of things and even libbun kal  it doesn't work like that. So whatever the temperature was that's the temperature. Okay so what we're our goal here is to get libbun kal  we want to get it heated up. So you say I know how to get it heated up it's easy it's got electric coils underneath it so you turn it on it's gonna get nice and hot. Okay so that brings us to another complication and that's because there's another din  which is when we kasher  something and we make it hot let's say with in this case with heat with fire the fire has to be or the water has to be on the side where the food was not on the side where the fire was. So in this case where was the chometz  or the treif  that's on my glass counter? That was on the top part of it. Well where's the coil that I have? The coil that I have is underneath. The coil is underneath so usually let's say when you think about kashering  your counter by pouring boiling water onto it the chometz would have been on the counter and the water is going to be on the top of the counter so you're doing it the right way. Here the fire is underneath and the food was on the top. Okay so that's not the way to kasher . You can't kasher by putting heat on the wrong side. So some people argue back and they say no but for libbun it's different. Maybe with libbun  it's different and you don't you could have the fire on the wrong side. Okay now there's such a thing there's a machlokes achronim  about that but that machlokes  is about libbun gamur when you make something burning hot like that's even hotter and that's because they say is because there it's as if the thing is on fire itself the whole thing is on fire. But it doesn't work for libbun kal . So some people say it's okay it's only glass anyhow it's just a chumra  so it's okay even though the fire is a little on the wrong side some people get away with that. And some people say no, lema'aseh  you have the fire on the wrong side. Okay, so if you think like that, what should you do? What am I going to do? I have this, this is my stovetop, what am I supposed to do? So for that there's a solution and that is basically he says I'm not going to kasher  my stovetop. Okay, well how am I going to cook? What I'm going to do is I'm going to make sure my pots never touch the stovetop. And that's by using these disks. These disks are really made for a different kind of glass stovetop, I'll talk about that for a second afterwards, for an induction stovetop. And these are for induction stovetops, can only use certain kind of pots on them, ferromagnetic pots. So if you don't have that kind of pot in your house, you put this disk down and the disk takes the role of that. But for our purposes, you can buy these on Amazon, any place, Target sells them, everybody you can buy them. R’ Yitzchok Hisiger: What's this called? R’ Dovid Cohen: It's called an induction disk. It's just really for our purposes it's just a metal disk and the point is when you put this down on the stovetop, the pots that you have are not going to touch the stovetop. So I didn't kasher  my stovetop, you're right I didn't kasher it. Okay. But I didn't ever put the pot on, I never put the pot onto the stovetop. Right. Okay, so this works and you can put these down. Just a word of caution that if you think about what you're doing is you're leaving this on your stovetop, it's going to be burning hot. Okay. So you should not take this off, of course not with your hands. Okay. Even some people have burnt their gloves trying to take them off because they get so hot. And someone else told me, someone told me also they took it and they put it onto their counter, their counter was Formica and they melted, no I'm sorry, their Pesach  counters were covered with something plastic, they covered it, they put this down, it melted right through that. So anyhow, it comes with a little handle to lift it off so you don't have to touch the heat yourself and put it down someplace that can handle the heat. Okay. Now and it brings me to mention, I'll mention two other things. One is even the glass stovetops if you kasher  it by heating up the turning on the burners, it only kashers  right around those burners. The space in between doesn't get kashered . And one last thing was I mentioned quickly about the induction stovetops. Induction stovetops, I don't know if you're familiar with it, it's a more modern kind of stovetop and in it it's glass on top, but there's no coils underneath it. When you turn it on you don't see, it doesn't get hot at all. Okay. And it works through, it's not important how it works, it's something called induction. It makes your pot hot but it itself doesn't ever get hot. So those stovetops have no way to kasher  them. You can't get them hot, it just doesn't work, there's no way to get them hot. So for those you have to use these disks. That's the only way to do it. You will not have kashered it and you just put your pot on top of that. R’ Yitzchok Hisiger: Any final thoughts on this topic as regards to Pesach  or kashering  from kosher  to treif ? Any other thoughts? R’ Dovid Cohen: The induction, the only final thought is about the induction I'll just throw in. Induction has its own issues with Shabbos  and bishul akum  issues. In other words, if you think about it, an induction stovetop, when you pick your pot up actually the coil stops producing electricity. So it has Shabbos  questions, it has other complications. If a person has an induction stovetop... R’ Yitzchok Hisiger: Meaning turning it on is not going to help for if a goy ... R’ Dovid Cohen: Right, when you turn it on nothing happens, but if a goy  comes and puts food on, that's a bishul akum  problem. It's a Shabbos  issue also every time you put the pots on and off. So a person with an induction stovetop really needs to ask shailos . We were just talking about the kashering  part of it. They have to just think about it, it has other complications. But for a regular stovetop again, some people will do what we said, turn on the coils and that kashers the area right around them. Right. And other people are not comfortable with that and they just use these disks instead. Excellent. Thank you so much.

Part 3 of our Q&A series with Rav Shmuel Fuerst Dayan of Agudas Yisroel of Illinois to answer some of the recent questions that came in to us at Let's Talk Kashrus. This week's Q&A focuses on some hilchos shabbos issues.   R’ Yitzchok Hisiger: Hello everyone and welcome back to Let’s Talk Kashrus , presented by the Kashrus  Awareness Project in conjunction with the Chicago Rabbinical Council. Today I am honored to be joined by Rav  Shmuel Fuerst, Dayan  of Agudath Yisrael  of Illinois. Thank you Rav  Fuerst for joining us. We’re continuing our series here of shailos  that people have submitted to Let’s Talk Kashrus . So today we’d like to discuss various Shabbos  and Yom Tov  related shailos , Shabbos  and Yom Tov  scenarios. And the first question is, is raw meat or fish considered muktzah ? R’ Shmuel Fuerst: The Mechaber  says in Shin-Ches that raw meat is chazai l'umtza , you can eat it, it’s right to it, you could chew it. You’d have to chew it. L'maisa , the Aruch HaShulchan and Rav  Moshe, today people don’t eat raw meat, so memeila  all raw meats or chicken or fish is considered muktzah . And therefore you cannot metaltel  it, it has the din of muktzah machmas gufo , you’re not allowed to move it even l'tzorech gufo u'mekomo . R’ Yitzchok Hisiger: Right, so the practical questions were, could it be moved within a fridge or freezer, especially very often you’re trying to get to other foods in the fridge or freezer, number one? And number two, let's say it falls out of the fridge or freezer, could I put it back in? R’ Shmuel Fuerst: Yes, right. Therefore, since it's a problem of muktzah , so a person before Shabbos , a woman before Shabbos she organizes the refrigerator and freezer to make sure in the front of the fridge are stuff that's ro'uy l'achila , so she shouldn't have a problem, and the stuff that's muktzah  should be in the back. And the same thing in a refrigerator also, the stuff that's muktzah  should be kept in the back so you shouldn't run into a problem moving, because to move on Shabbos it's muktzah . On Yom Tov  it would be muttar  because to get to the ochel , so on Yom Tov  there's a special halacha  it's okay, you're allowed to move muktzah  to get to the ochel . But on Shabbos it's a serious problem of muktzah . Therefore you should have all the raw meat and chicken in the back and the stuff like ice cream or cake what you have in the freezer and refrigerator keep in the front so you shouldn't run into the problem. If let's say by mistake you open the freezer, the freezer is full and chicken and chicken falls out, raw chicken falls out, raw meat, today raw chicken, raw meat is very expensive today, falls on the floor, and if you let it stay, and especially in the summertime, you let it stay on the floor it's going to melt and it's going to get ruined and so on. So there's a Mishnah Berurah  that brings down a machlokos Taz , Magen Avraham , and the Mishnah Berurah  is machmir . However, in the sefer   Shalmei Yehuda  he brings down from Rav Elyashiv that in a makom hefsed meruba  you could somich  on the shitah of the Taz  and you could pick it up and put it back into the freezer. And if you want to be machmir  like the Magen Avraham , the only thing you do is kil-achar-yad , because muktzah  is only muttar to move, it's muktzah machmas gufo , you're only allowed to move it kil-achar-yad . But Rav  Elyashiv is meikel  in a makom hefsed gadol  it’s expensive, then you're allowed to put it back into the freezer. Well what's the qualifications for hefsed gadol  by a yachid ? Each person is different. Some people, very wealthy people, if a piece of meat today costs twenty-five dollars means nothing to them, some people it's a supper. R’ Yitzchok Hisiger: Okay. Do we consider double-walled thermoses as a kli rishon  or a kli sheni ? R’ Shmuel Fuerst: It’s a kli sheni . A thermos bi'klal  is always considered a kli sheni and there’s no issur  of hatmanah . R’ Yitzchok Hisiger: Okay. A couple is on a Friday night walking tour in Rome, this is a real question, a couple’s on a Friday night walking tour in Rome and the guide says that she's Jewish but she carries a phone and a water bottle where there's no eruv . So here's the two questions: number one, could they continue the tour or must they stop because it's like they're causing this person who's a Yid  to be mechalel Shabbos ? But do they even have to believe her that she's halachically Jewish when she says so? R’ Shmuel Fuerst: It doesn't hurt to ask her. She says she's Jewish already, there's no reason why she should say it if she's saying it already. You should ask her how you know you're Jewish and sometimes they'll say yes, my father is Jewish, so then we know she's not Jewish. So you can ask her one or two questions and you can probably find out right away she's Jewish or not Jewish. If she's not Jewish certainly then there's no problem. R’ Yitzchok Hisiger: Right, and if she says her mother's Jewish then she has ne'emanus  to say so. R’ Shmuel Fuerst: Yeah, for this much you have to tell her, listen, you cut the thing short, find some way it shouldn't be a chillul Hashem  and cut the tour short and that's it because you're causing her to carry on Shabbos . R’ Yitzchok Hisiger: Right. Okay, one final shaila  in this category for Shabbos , Yom Tov . Nowadays challahs  are much softer than they were in the times of Shulchan Aruch . Are we still required to make an indent before making the bracha ? R’ Shmuel Fuerst: It says in Shulchan Aruch  that when you wash, when you make a... Hamotzi , Lechem Mishneh , you should cut a little bit into the top of the challah  and then afterwards you cut. The reason why that's done because olden times the challos  were very, very hard, so it shouldn't be too big of a hefsek , so you cut it. Today, all challos  today are so soft, so this shayla was asked to Rav Moshe  and Rav Moshe  said you don't have to, today you don't have to make the indentation. Even though you see people still normally do, nothing wrong with doing it, nothing wrong with doing it. You're not making no, because some people say it's shalem , it's still shalem , still shalem , still shalem , so if one wants to do it, let them do it, let them continue doing it. It's still halacha , still halacha and shalem , right? Yeah, but you don't have to do it, it's not m'akeiv . But that was the reason why, why was because it was hard to cut, so you would start cutting before to make it easier, to make it easier. Okay.

So you booked a beautiful Airbnb… now what? In this episode of Let’s Talk Kashrus , Rabbi Sholem Fishbane - Kashrus Administrator at the Chicago Rabbinical Council, and Executive Director of AKO, walks us through the practical halachic realities of using an Airbnb kitchen. From stovetops and ovens to microwaves, Keurigs, sinks, and even barbecues — what can you use, what needs kashering, and what should you avoid altogether? Whether you're traveling for vacation, Yom Tov, or business, this Airbnb Survival Guide gives clear, practical guidance to help you stay kosher.   R’ Yitzchok Hisiger: Hello everyone and welcome back to Let's Talk Kashrus , presented by the Kashrus  Awareness Project and the CRC of Chicago. Today I am privileged to be joined by Rabbi Sholem Fishbane, Kashrus Administrator at the CRC of Chicago, the Chicago Rabbinical Council. Thank you Rabbi Fishbane for joining us. Always a pleasure to see you. Today we'd like to discuss a topic that comes up throughout the year when people travel, they go to Airbnb’s, and they come into this beautiful apartment or house, and they settle down for a few days or for a week, and they'd like to use many of the appliances or other amenities that there are in the Airbnb, but they don't know from a kashrus  standpoint what they may use, what they can't use. Could you walk us through, give us some tips as to what people could do when they go to an Airbnb? R’ Sholem Fishbane: Yes, that's a great question and we get that all the time. So I'll share with you what we've put together based on all the questions that come through. So the very first thing you should assume is that all the utensils and appliances and counters and sinks are not kosher . And this is critical. Even if the guy says I only rent it to kosher people. That is way very common. Today we won't get into the halachic reasons why, but you need to assume that it's not kosher  and sometimes the hotels like to do that, but you're coming in, it's not kosher . So now what, right? So some people are smart and they think ahead of time, so they will bring their own pots. Their own pots and pans from home. And then the question only becomes can they use the stove top? So if you bring your own pots and pans from home, you can use the stove top as is, no problem. If it's an electric, a glass-covered rather, a glass-covered, that you would need to kasher . How do you kasher  that? You turn on each burner one or two at a time, not all four at the same time, for 15 minutes before placing the kosher  pot onto the surface for the first time, and you're good to go. R’ Yitzchok Hisiger: And the reason you don't do all at the same time is because it could cause the glass to crack, right? R’ Sholem Fishbane: Very good. Yeah, so it's a practical thing, it's not a halachic  thing. Exactly. And then you look at just as you said, going through the kitchen. Then you have the oven. So you can use the oven after kashering it. Now how do you kasher ? Well, if you're lucky and you have what's called the self-clean cycle, that goes way up there, you do that and you're 100% that's the best, that's libun gamur . You can kasher  that way. Let's say it's the traditional that it doesn't only go higher than I don't know 550. So assuming that it's an eino ben yomo , and a person can assume it's an eino ben yomo , you can turn it on for 550 degrees, which is the highest, for one hour, and then you could use it. Obviously it has to be cleaned inside, but that would be as far as the oven goes. Moving on, what about the microwave? So there's different shittos in microwave, I'm just sharing what we say at the CRC. There's really two ways. One way is you clean out all the visible residue that's in the microwave and then you double wrap the food on all sides. That is the somewhat the easiest. R’ Yitzchok Hisiger: If someone for some reason they say no I need to kasher  the microwave, is there a way of kashering ? R’ Sholem Fishbane: So I'm not talking for Pesach  now, the Pesach  and all, let's just focus on as you said Airbnb during the year. You can kasher , yeah. Clean it very well, remove the glass plate which you cannot kasher , and then put a boiling cup of water into the chamber for about 10 minutes, 15 minutes until it fills up with steam and then you can kasher  it that way and then you can use the microwave. So that would be in terms of the microwave. Okay, so we did stove top, oven, microwave. Very common question, what about the coffee maker? Okay. So I think we've said it several times that coffee by itself is kosher , right? Plain old coffee doesn't need a hechsher  even. And most places are just going to have plain old coffee. And you can see, you can open up the cabinets, they usually leave over from the previous people, and you'll see plain old coffee, decaf, regular, it's fine. And you most of the time even see a hechsher  on it. So that's not the problem. So the plain old coffee you could use, not a problem. What you do need to worry about though is the cups, the K-cups, Keurig cups, well, so the K-cups is a little different, but let's just talk about where it's where it's the regular where it drips and you take it out. Oh okay. So that is a little bit because there's a dishwasher, you're going to assume they're going to wash it in the dishwasher. So you shouldn't use that and you certainly shouldn't use the ceramic cups. That bring from home or figure out a way how to get into your cup that way. But the coffee maker... self is okay. R’ Yitzchok Hisiger: So if I could remove let's say that glass container and then put in my own cup and let it drip directly into it, that would be okay. R’ Sholem Fishbane: 100 percent. And I could use the maker. That's not the problem. Yeah, that's not the problem. The Keurig also. Keurig machines in general almost all of them are there used to be, I'm talking about 15 years ago or 10 years ago, they made a non-kosher Keurig cup. They made chicken soup or something. But they've discontinued that long gone, so there's almost never you're going to have something really non-kosher going in a Keurig machine. So it's not a problem to use a Keurig machine. You use their cups, no problem. If someone is makpid  on cholov stam keilim , sometimes you'll have a Keurig pod that might be a hot chocolate that's milchig . That you should look out for. But if one is not makpid  on keilim  but keeps cholov yisroel  but not on keilim , so then you're okay making a Keurig using the Keurig machine because again almost all the ones that I've seen on Keurigs and these pods, they're either going to be kosher or kosher dairy across the board. Okay. Obviously we said before the dishwasher you cannot use. Toaster also we don't recommend using, also because people use it for non-kosher. Now what about the you open these drawers, there's all sorts of utensils, right? You could have a can opener, corkscrew, a cup, a dish, a silverware, a sinktop, water pitchers. What about all those? There's a slew of those. So if you're going to use them for hot, you should not use it for hot for blios  of treif . But for cold, assuming that they're clean, let's say you want to take a drink using a cup, a cold drink, that's okay. If you want to use the can opener or the corkscrew or something like that, that's okay. Obviously you want to make sure that it's clean. When I say clean, sometimes it gets trapped in the crevices. There's residue that gets trapped in the cracks. You make sure it's clean, but halachically it's okay to use that, and that really, that really helps people when they go to the Airbnb. And finally, just walking through the kitchen, the only thing that comes to mind that one should avoid is also the oven mitts. Okay. We advise against using the oven mitts, the placemats, and the colander also, just based on watching what goes on and all that. So that's pretty much what happens in an Airbnb kitchen, and there's lots of ways to make it work. One of the things, just that you know kind of a nice little thing I learned from my brother Bentzy, he taught us a nice trick when we go out to these places, and people worry about barbecue. So what we do is we buy ourselves a grate, just like kind of like an oven grate, tovel it, and that's one of the things that slips into your the front flap of your suitcase all the time. And once you have that, you go to a Walmart, you buy yourself a nice big throwaway turkey roaster, aluminum pan that's sturdy, and then you go buy yourself a thing of charcoal and you light it and you can make your own barbecue wherever you want, and all you really needed to worry about was that one grate. Afterwards you clean it and you put it back in your suitcase and you're good to go. So that's something that... R’ Yitzchok Hisiger: And you've seen this work? R’ Sholem Fishbane: I've seen it work, we do it all the time whenever we get together, and it's just a nice little tip. Not a kashrus necessarily, but just once we're talking about... R’ Yitzchok Hisiger: Listen, here at Kashrus  Awareness, we give practical tips, we give kashrus  tips, we give everything. I wanted to ask you one thing about sinks also in Airbnbs. I don't know if you touched on that. Putting keilim  into sinks, turning on the hot water in the sink and things of that sort, if you could give some guidance. R’ Sholem Fishbane: So basically what you want to be careful is that when you do wash the keilim , that you wash it at lukewarm. And that's something that therefore you want to give only an adult to be in charge of washing the sink so that there's no blios  from the sink. That's a good point also, yes. So keep it soapy and lukewarm and you're good to go. Got it. And a practical thing is maybe don't wear gloves because then you don't realize how hot... Right, right, right. R’ Yitzchok Hisiger: Great point. Anyway, it's been a great short summary here, helping us get through our Airbnb experience. As always, Rabbi Fishbane, thank you for joining us.

We have discussed party planners in the past, but this week we focus on another angle. Rabbi Yaakov Eisenbach - Rabbinic Coordinator at the cRc gives us the mashgiach's perspective of giving a hechsher to an event that is being run by a party planner, and the complexities it entails.   R’ Yitzchok Hisiger: Hello everyone and welcome back to Let's Talk Kashrus , presented by the Kashrus  Awareness Project. Today I am privileged to be joined by Rabbi Yaakov Eisenbach, rabbinic coordinator for food service at the Chicago Rabbinical Council. Thank you Rabbi Eisenbach for joining us, how are you? R’ Yaakov Eisenbach: Doing wonderful. R’ Yitzchok Hisiger: We want to talk to you about today just for a few minutes is party planners. Now we've done some episodes about party planners but I want to hear from you as a veteran Mashgiach  what you encounter when you deal with party planners and hopefully we could have a few takeaways from this conversation both for party planners who may be watching this and also for the everyday man for the consumer so that they should know what happens when there is that interaction between the party planner who's trying to do their job and the Mashgiach  who obviously has an achrayus  to do his job. R’ Yaakov Eisenbach: You can have a party planner who does the party themselves. And they'll do from A to Z and I always tell the party planners because I've gone to party planners, I've been dealing with this for years. I say go under Hashgacha . She says, "We're not a caterer." I said, "You are a caterer. You have keilim . You have utensils. Whether it's toiveled or not I don't know because no one's overseeing any of these party planners. And where's it washed? This is just an example. They'll go into a house and you have equipment and they're doing fifty person party. Now, are they cooking the food? No." I said, "The only difference between you and a caterer will say is that they might have a kitchen. But no difference, you're getting the food is like you're having a kitchen, you're preparing it, you're keeping you're renting hot boxes, you're renting equipment. Is it kosher , not kosher  equipment, who's kashering it for you?" So if you go into a private party and someone invites you for a parlor meeting you should look for a Mashgiach . But then these party planners will go ahead and as one party planner once told me, we just gotta get the job done. Whatever it takes to do. So if it's a Shabbos  party for example, they might send the person we ran out of ice, go get the ice on Shabbos . Now, being at a party your it doesn't meet your standard that you're having the goyim  doing things that would not be permitted in your own house. So that's a regular party planner and I've been dealing with it and I've gone I've tried in Chicago where I've gone to shuls  and met with the Rabbonim  to give policies. Some shuls  do have policies. But I said you have a party planner coming in here. I'll give you a case yesterday. Somebody there was a shul , very good in Hashgacha , the regular Mashgiach  is out of town, one of our caterers doing a job, and they say, "Could you do us a favor and could you find us a Mashgiach ?" So I was out of town but I texted them a couple names. So this person texted back and I told them I can't talk, speak to my associate who I work with if you have any questions about it. So here's a prime example. So the party planner said be here at five o'clock. Now Shabbos means it already started. So obviously everything was prepared beforehand, meaning they brought the food, had to put it in the hot boxes or however they're prepping, putting up the blech  if it's being done properly, and they said to come at five o'clock. Five o'clock means come by the meal. So a lot of these party planners it's more of a show that they have to have a Mashgiach  because the shul  requires a Mashgiach but they're dictating what time to come. Five o'clock, everything is done. Meaning whatever had to been done for the prep, tables are set, the oven was put in or whatever they're using for equipment for Shabbos  if they're doing it properly. So my associate told them, which I would have told them, you call up when they're bringing the food, you're there from the beginning till after clean-up. And I've had that too where another rabbi came up to me two weeks ago. He had a party planner in his shul , okay, they hired their own Mashgiach , it's usually a CRC Mashgiach  that they hire because I can't stop them, they're a freelancer to do what they want. And they went ahead and and he's hired by her so he's not following the CRC rule as far as that is and he left at the end after everything was done. Meantime the party planner's there loading up her car for after I mean I don't even know what she did or he did whoever the party planner was and just loaded all, cleaned up the thing and loaded up the truck and had the non-Jewish person I think I don't know they took it away on Shabbos  or just not. But if what happened by us that doesn't do it because either sometimes we have to move it let's say if we're in an area where they gotta get it out, so they have the truck parked and they leave it there. Mashgiach holds onto the keys until after Shabbos  so we know no one can say anything. And then they go. But here, the rabbi came to me and says, we don't allow her back. We gave her a phone call. We're not allowing this party planner back. So these are just issues that the party planners themselves do on their own because they don't have to play by rules. But then we had a story, I would say, about two years ago. They bought new equipment, was a party, bought new equipment for hotel, everything right. What was the problem? The tevilas keilim . So, gotta do a party, so the mashgiach  went with the workers there. There was a river right there to go tovel  the keilim . Wow. Every single kli . Wow. R’ Yitzchok Hisiger: What percentage of party planners do you think today have hashgacha ? R’ Yaakov Eisenbach: None. None. I have not heard of a party planner. We once had a caterer who was really, R’ Yitzchok Hisiger: at least the ones you deal with. R’ Yaakov Eisenbach: The ones I deal with. I haven't heard anybody from out of town tell me. R’ Yitzchok Hisiger: Like you said, that's a big, big problem. First of all, who's overseeing, even if the caterer they use has hashgacha , we're assuming the caterer they're using. R’ Yaakov Eisenbach: I mean, they're getting the food. They're getting the food from somewhere. A drop-off. A drop-off means here's your food, zei gezunt . R’ Yitzchok Hisiger: But who's ensuring that the hashgacha on that establishment is reliable? Who's ensuring that however their keilim are being washed, that that's being washed properly? Right? R’ Yaakov Eisenbach: Not being washed in a facility with somebody's house. Somebody's house. You wouldn't eat in their house. I've had this. Now she has her own dishes or he has his own dishes, the party planner. Now you have those dishes washed in someone's house, fine. And then they want to go ahead and do a vort  or a fifty person dinner and you got a beautiful china. And she's bringing it with the caterer. CRC caterer or whatever hashgacha  they're under. You don't know what these plates are. What do they say to you? R’ Yitzchok Hisiger: So what do you do as a representative of the CRC? You show up, a party planner brings their own dishes and you don't know where those dishes have been. So what do you do? You say you can't use them? R’ Yaakov Eisenbach: Right. They're not used. We'll walk out. If you insist on that, I'll tell the mashgiach , he'll be paid for his full day, we will walk out. R’ Yitzchok Hisiger: But I would say the takeaway from our conversation is twofold. From the party planner standpoint, obviously we would encourage every party planner to have a reputable hashgacha . No question. It's definitely an extra expense for them, but it's vital that they have hashgacha . Right? Am I right about that? R’ Yaakov Eisenbach: Yeah. It's not such an extra expense over a year. You know what I'm saying? R’ Yitzchok Hisiger: You know, and it's and I would say from the consumer standpoint, I think maybe the way to make inroads on this issue is if people, when you hire a party planner, the first question you should be asking is, do you have hashgacha ? And then the more it becomes part of the conversation, maybe, maybe, maybe there will be some kind of transformation. R’ Yaakov Eisenbach: Comes from pressure from the consumer, literally. R’ Yitzchok Hisiger: Rabbi Eisenbach, it's been a pleasure sitting with you. It's so nice to hear your reminiscences about your experiences in kashrus , besides for your insight regarding this specific topic of party planners, and we hope to speak to you again. Thank you. R’ Yaakov Eisenbach: Thank you.

Part 2 of our Q&A series with Rav Shmuel Fuerst Dayan of Agudas Yisroel of Illinois to answer some of the recent questions that came in to us at Let's Talk Kashrus. This week's Q&A focuses on common dining related issues.   R’ Yitzchok Hisiger: Hello everyone and welcome back to Let's Talk Kashrus  presented by the Kashrus  Awareness Project in conjunction with the Chicago Rabbinical Council. Today I am honored to be joined once again by Rav  Shmuel Fuerst, Dayan  of Agudas Yisrael  of Illinois. Thank you Rav  Fuerst for being here again. We'd like to continue our discussion of Shailos  that came in and hear the Tshuvos of the Rav . So a Shaila  that we got is whether there is Bishul Akum  when it comes to a microwave. Rav Shmuel Fuerst: I saw several people discuss it if there's Bishul Akum  by microwave. We hold L'dina  there is Bishul Akum  by microwave. R’ Yitzchok Hisiger: Because we consider it real cooking? Rav Shmuel Fuerst: Real cooking. I asked this Shaila  to Reb  Elyashiv, he told me there's Bishul Akum . I asked Reb  Shlomo Zalman, he told me there's Bishul Akum . So I asked Reb  Shlomo Zalman in his Sefer Minchas Shlomo , he says on Shabbos  he holds that it's a Bishul D'rabbanan . And Bishul D'rabbanan  has no Bishul Akum , so also on Shabbos  only Bishul D'rabbanan , so l'chora  it should be there's no Bishul Akum  by microwave. I asked him this so he told me that there's a chillek . On Shabbos  the reason why it's not D'Oraisa  because not domeh to Melachas Hamishkan . So therefore that's why in microwave is only D'rabbanan . Mashe ein kein  for Bishul Akum  is zicher  it's considered Bishul Akum , it has all the halachos  of Bishul Akum  by microwave. I asked the same thing to Reb  Yisrael Yaakov Fisher, he told me also there is Bishul Akum  by microwave. So consensus of the Poskim is there is an issur Bishul Akum  by microwave. R’ Yitzchok Hisiger: Yeah, it's obviously nogaya  to the food, it's nogaya  to Keilim , right, to the microwave itself. It's nogaya  to the microwave itself as well. Yeah, I'm saying this could come up in someone's house if they have cleaning help. It comes up sometimes. Rav Shmuel Fuerst: Very often it's not nogaya , most of the time people use a microwave just to reheat. So it's already cooked by a Yisroel , so it's only reheated, the issue is not Bishul Akum . But sometimes there are certain things that you do a microwave, you cook mamash  cooking, then there will be issur Bishul Akum  if something's oleh al shulchan melachim . R’ Yitzchok Hisiger: Right. A senior Posek  was quoted as saying that the harder age cheeses that we have nowadays are not like they used to be and you don't have to wait six hours after eating these cheeses. Do we follow this opinion? Rav Shmuel Fuerst: The consensus of most Poskim  is not like that and you have to wait six hours for these real hard cheeses. Now in America it's not shchiach , you don't see it that often around, especially unless it's a store that specializes in cheeses. Most of the cheeses you buy in a store are not a problem of six hours. Parmesan cheese there are Poskim  hold you wait six hours, that's consensus of most Poskim . But the regular cheese you don't have to, American type, all American type cheese you do not have to wait six hours. R’ Yitzchok Hisiger: Got it. How about if the cheese was melted into a dish, do you still have to wait? Rav Shmuel Fuerst: Something like Parmesan cheese, something like that, it's only if it's eaten raw. But if it's melted, the Yad Yehuda says in siman pay tes , the Yad Yehuda  says that if it's melted it's no more takes away the charifus , the charifus , and therefore you don't have to wait six hours. So nogaya  certain fancy pizzas that are made with Parmesan cheese, that's when it's nogaya . Where it's melted in. Melted in, yeah. R’ Yitzchok Hisiger: If one eats meat and then goes to sleep for half hour, does this break the six hour wait? Rav Shmuel Fuerst: There's a Shaila  in the Achronim , Daas Kedoshim  and other Achronim  clarify the Shaila  if you sleep in between. However, L'dina  the consensus of almost all Poskim is you must wait six hours no matter if you slept, you didn't sleep, it doesn't matter how long you slept, you must wait six hours and that's it, finished. R’ Yitzchok Hisiger: Funny when I mentioned this question to someone and I mentioned to the Rav , he's like who ever heard of such a thing? I said there is a Shita  like that. Rav Shmuel Fuerst: It's a Shita , sure, the Daas Kedoshim , there are some people that are meikel , but l'mayseh you must wait six hours. R’ Yitzchok Hisiger: Otherwise they'd be going to sleep all the time. What Bracha  does a person make on schnitzel? Rav Shmuel Fuerst: I asked this Shaila  many years ago to Reb  Moshe and he told me on schnitzel you make Mezonos , you davka make a Mezonos . I says what about a B'racha Achrona ? He said no, just one Bracha , that's what Reb  Moshe told me. R’ Yitzchok Hisiger: Mezonos  because of the breading? Rav Shmuel Fuerst: Because of the breading, right. I asked this to and I saw printed in the name of Reb  Elyashiv. Rav Elyashiv holds that it's printed in two places. One place it's printed you make only mezonos , another place he says you make two brachos . I didn't see, it's quoted in the Sefer Ashrei Ish . I didn't see the mekoros  where he wrote over there. Or it could be in one place he writes that you make two brachos  is when you have something like chicken where you have a lot of chicken and you have this coating, this breaded coating on. That could be maybe he held you make two brachos . But Rav Elyashiv  it's printed you make a mezonos . One place says make two brachos . If you make two brachos , it could be that case was a little bit different. But normally schnitzel  according to Rav Moshe for sure you make mezonos . According to Rav Elyashiv  it's a sha'ala what he held exactly. R’ Yitzchok Hisiger: And when you say mezonos , Rav Shmuel Fuerst: I tell everyone to make mezonos . R’ Yitzchok Hisiger: Make mezonos  really? Doesn't matter how thick the coating is? Even a thin coating? Rav Shmuel Fuerst: It doesn't make a difference. Made le-ta'am . And that's how we tell everyone dina . R’ Yitzchok Hisiger: And a bracha achrona ? Rav Shmuel Fuerst: Bracha achrona  depends if you had a kezayis of it. R’ Yitzchok Hisiger: A kezayis  of the coating? Rav Shmuel Fuerst: Of the coating, right, R’ Yitzchok Hisiger: which is probably not so shchiach . Rav Shmuel Fuerst: Depends how thick it is. Depends how thick the coating is. So the bracha  would be a sha'ala . I, to run it in my house, we use cornflake crumbs not to run into sha'alas . So it's always a shehakol . So it's always a shehakol . You run out of sha'alas  so we use cornflake crumbs and that's it. R’ Yitzchok Hisiger: So when you're saying that it's mezonos , that's when you're using breadcrumbs. Breadcrumbs, yeah. Right. I guess it's the truth is that it's hard to know. We would have to find out what they're using. Rav Shmuel Fuerst: Best thing is what I do. I tell my wife uses from, what did I say again? A cornflake, cornflake crumbs, yeah. R’ Yitzchok Hisiger: I was going to say when you go to a simcha or you go to a restaurant or you go to a takeout store you don't always know what they're using. What they're using. Rav Shmuel Fuerst: They're using breadcrumbs derech klal usually, yeah. R’ Yitzchok Hisiger: And then according to the Rav  the bracha would be mezonos , bracha achrona  would be al hamichya  if you ate a kezayis  of the breading. Right, correct. Okay, thank you so much.

When Out-Of-Town When traveling to small towns that have local hechsherim, how does one go about finding out if they can rely on that hechsher? Rabbi Yaakov Eisenbach - Rabbinic Coordinator at the cRc, gives us some guidance on this topic. R’ Yitzchok Hisiger: Hello everyone and welcome back to Let's Talk Kashrus  presented by the Kashrus  Awareness Project. Today I am privileged to be joined by Rabbi Yaakov Eisenbach, rabbinic coordinator for food service at the Chicago Rabbinical Council. Thank you Rabbi Eisenbach for being here once again. So nice to see you. R’ Yaakov Eisenbach: Always such an honor to be here and coming back. Thank you. R’ Yitzchok Hisiger: So I want to talk to you about consumers who go out of town. I get this a lot. First of all, people travel much more than they used to, many people travel on business, people go out of town, they come to a restaurant, the restaurant may have a hashgacha  but they don't recognize what it is, they don't know what they could eat. Give us a little guideline as a mashgiach who's been doing this for over two decades, you've been there, you've seen it, you see what goes on in these places. Give that traveling consumer a few tips for what he or she should know when they're on the road. R’ Yaakov Eisenbach: The number one thing I would tell a consumer or someone who travels a lot or even if you don't travel, you go once a year, twice a year, and we're going there and call our office and call the cRc or call someone you know in kashrus  and say do you know anything about this place, can I eat there. R’ Yitzchok Hisiger: Very often, I'll just mention, very often they don't have the ability to do so because they don't even know this restaurant exists until they get to the city and then they're there and they're in the local shul  and they or something or they meet someone and they say to someone, do you know if there's any place to eat over here and they say yeah, there's this restaurant down the block and they go there and now they're literally sitting in the restaurant. They didn't have a chance to call the cRc to prep them. They might have a few cans of sardines and tuna in their hotel room, they brought a little preparation, a few crackers, but now they're on the spur of the moment, what could they do. R’ Yaakov Eisenbach: So again in these small towns we acknowledge that there are different levels based on the town and availability. So in a big city we expect the hashgacha  to be of a higher level. Certain small towns the rav  wants to bring kashrus and have some place for people to eat out in order to raise up population, people can be able to. One of the things people look at is there a shul , is there a mikvah , is there other things that a day school, a high school, Jewish infrastructure. One of the Jewish infrastructure is to have food service, place to go out for breakfast. Even if it's not but there's somewhere we can go get a coffee and not deal with Starbucks and look at the list, oh I can get this latte that's made with I don't even know how to pronounce it. So we understand so let's say we go to a bigger city where there's more mashgichim  available, where the consumer there also is of a higher level where they want and there's a small city where you can't find anybody to help and they're not doing anything big. We're not talking about fleishig  restaurants like a small bagel place, maybe milchig , so there's guidelines of what would be the minimum hashgacha , what is the maximum hashgacha . So you go to a town again you could be out in Oklahoma, I don't know and then they have a small shul there and the local rav  gives a hechsher  to a bagel place. So will you have a mashgiach temidi  there, no you probably won't. But if it's under hashgacha , you got to get a hold of the rav  and speak to him just say what are the standards that you have here. Is there any cholov yisroel  of again, depends on your standard. The bagels, where are they coming from. If you're makpid  on pas yisroel . Pas yisroel sure. So he'll tell you a lot of the places they do turn it on depending on the hashgacha  of who's giving it in that local town. That rav  might be makpid  on pas yisroel  or I've seen it where it's not pas yisroel  but they bake challahs  for them so on Fridays or Thursdays the rabbi goes in and turns it on. Oh is that right. I've seen it. I've seen it. But for somebody traveling and there's a town usually it's the local rav  who's the rav hamachshir . So that is the number one person to call. So some places if it's a fleishig  restaurant now do you have a mashgiach temidi there. We're talking more issues. I mean in a regular milchig  restaurant you have issues too. Is there bishul yisroel , just the actual cooking. Bedikas tolaim  right. Bedikas tolaim  and some people say the rav  will tell you don't eat the tolaim . I'm relying on this for the hamon am but for you it's not. Don't eat vegetables. Right.   R’ Yitzchok Hisiger: There are people by the way who travel who do ask these there are people I could think of who reach out to me and I'm just kind of the middle person here because they know I have a connection to many kashrus  agencies through Let's Talk Kashrus  and the people who travel and they're constantly asking I'm going to Bermuda, I'm going to Panama, I'm going talking about outside the United States or I'm traveling to the Midwest so on and so forth and they want to know what. Where they could eat. So beyond speaking to the local rov  or if you're doing it in advance you're speaking to the cRc is there anything else that someone should know? R’ Yaakov Eisenbach: Sure. Let's say you go and there is a mashgiach there. But you don't know let's say the hashgacha  it's a big city but you've never heard of this hashgacha . So the first thing you should ask is is there a mashgiach  here present? They say yeah so and I've taught this to my kids too you know the first thing just throw questions meaning is the tuna bishul yisrael ? Is the bread pas yisrael ? What's yoshon ? Which meat are you using? And if the mashgiach  just boom boom boom boom you know you're doing good. You know again is he there all the time? I don't know but at least you know there's somebody overseeing what's going on in the place. R’ Yitzchok Hisiger: You're saying the way someone answers a question tells you a lot about their knowledge their efficiency their accountability. R’ Yaakov Eisenbach: Some places I've been was very nice they have a list and the daily list of because certain people want this meat hashgacha this hashgacha  and they write on each day what the meat is this chicken cutlets is this hashgacha  the meat ground beef is this. So that's you know that's knowledgeable you know we have at the CRC and we're upgrading it you know as we have these screens you ever been in Chicago at a restaurant in Chicago? R’ Yitzchok Hisiger: I've been in one restaurant I think in Chicago. R’ Yaakov Eisenbach: Okay I'll call Rabbi Fishbane we'll invite you come in there we'll take you around a little bit you'll see what we do. We have these screens some have broken down we're getting we're updating it where it's going to be able because everything's online by us of all our restaurants of what they have what's the the status of the yoshon   pas yisrael  and bishul yisrael  tuna and all that but we're going to be updating it that automatically any changes they're going to be wifi into this screen that we're going to have in every restaurant and just update whenever it has to update. You can literally look it up on the spot. It's there it's sitting on we have them in our places some and then also because we're open they have my cellphone number on it you have any questions call me or my yotzei v'nichnas . And I've gotten over the years I've got some phone calls. We're here to help the consumer out and we're not trying to cover anything. R’ Yitzchok Hisiger: You know before we wrap up I'm sure as a mashgiach and I'm sure other your fellow mashgichim  encounter this issue of kashrus out of town because precisely because you're traveling so much right so you end up in many places in a durf  somewhere some village some town where there aren't many Jewish establishments if any right and I'm sure you so the mashgichim themselves are dealing with this challenge. R’ Yaakov Eisenbach: Yeah so they usually brown bag it. R’ Yitzchok Hisiger: Yeah is that right? R’ Yaakov Eisenbach: Oh yeah yeah I go to a Walmart bring along your rice cakes I always whenever I travel rice cakes and cheese you know. R’ Yitzchok Hisiger: Rice cakes and cheese that's the go to? R’ Yaakov Eisenbach: Oh that's my go to from Wisconsin you got to take the cheese but R’ Yitzchok Hisiger: and how do you keep that how do you maybe you have an ice pack or R’ Yaakov Eisenbach: No they bring when you get to the hotel you pour ice over everything. But I have the luxury I deal with food service so I have all the headaches but I get to be home every night so I don't have to travel so much get to be in yeshiva  I get to do you know but it's I can be up this week mashgiach  got sick 5:00 a.m. in the morning he says he's going to go open up but I got to find a replacement for him. So that's a different type of you know the dedication of the mashgichim . R’ Yitzchok Hisiger: Sure sure sure. R’ Yaakov Eisenbach: And food service is I always talk about is I mean we could talk about this something else to discuss is just the day to day what a mashgiach  does compared to somebody who goes to a company you know a company you go there forty five minutes half hour check the items you get paid certain amount but a food service in normal cases they're getting paid by the hour and they're. R’ Yitzchok Hisiger: You know I'm happy that you mentioned the dedication of mashgiach  we'll end with this because just this week I met the rebbitzen  of a certain mashgiach  wife very dedicated mashgiach someone who's worked in the field of kashrus  for many years and what emerged from my conversation is that most people don't appreciate the dedication of kashrus   mashgichim  besides that they don't get paid enough which is a conversation for a separate episode but just their mere dedication most of which goes unnoticed and flies under the radar it really is a tremendous service to klal yisrael  all of the products we have and the plethora of items that we have in kosher supermarkets and so on and so forth is thanks to people like yourself who may be you know on the higher level and then the on the field mashgichim  who really enable us to enjoy the many items that are available. R’ Yaakov Eisenbach: When I was in yeshiva  I mean as a kid bein hazmanim  I used to work for extra money so we used to do the cholov yisrael  runs in those days it's not the same now where you have three four farms with thousands of animals. And the hours and the you get paid. I'm not saying they don't pay, but the dedication like you've said here where they'll travel and they're away from home all week. Sure, I understand they got to make a parnassah  and they're doing that, but it's you know, or they sit on a farm for a whole week so they get to learn, they get to this. But the mesiras nefesh , they go away for Shabbos . You know, and I think about in food service too. A mashgiach there's Shabbos  parties, they got to take care of the mashgiach , you know, but they're not home for Shabbos . They're not home, right? Right. Right. You ever go see a thank you to the mashgiach  and say, I know it's not easy for you to get away from home and thank you and your wife that you're able to enhance our Shabbos  by being here. You know, you go all these big, big dinners that they have, right? The amount of time that goes planning it and spend behind the times and working with it, you know when it's a three, four-day convention, right? Yeah, sure. What goes behind it and the hours and the walking. I had to get three pairs of shoes at times, you know, once at Pesach  one time besides the cruises, okay, that I could tell you stories about that too. But you're 16, 17, 18 hours on your feet. R’ Yitzchok Hisiger: Wow. You know? Listen, it's unbelievable what the mashgichim  do and Rabbi Eisenbach, you as well, thank you for your immense contributions to the world of kashrus  as you've been doing for a good over 20 years. So thank you for that and thank you once again for joining us. We appreciate it. R’ Yaakov Eisenbach: Thank you. Appreciate it.

Kashrus Complication Oftentimes at high end resorts, these statements can be heard. "The chef knows kosher", or "I'm only getting fish in a brand-new pan", or "The resort has a separate kosher kitchen". Unfortunately, these statements are becoming more and more common, but it really boils down to just 1 question says Rabbi Sholom Tendler - Kashrus Administrator at the STAR-K, "Is there a mashgiach?" Are we really going to trust non-Jewish staff about kashrus now? Who ensures the pots and pans in the separate kitchen, stay separate? Let's educate ourselves about the myriad potential problems with such resorts. R’ Yitzchok Hisiger: Hello everyone and welcome back to Let's Talk Kashrus , presented by the Kashrus  Awareness Project and the Chicago Rabbinical Council. Today I am privileged to be joined by Rabbi Sholom Tendler, kashrus administrator at the Star-K. Thank you Rabbi Tendler for joining us once again. R’ Sholom Tendler: Pleasure, thank you for having me back. Appreciate it. R’ Yitzchok Hisiger: Today we'd like to discuss a very important topic, something that comes up, perhaps at one time it would have been only during the summer or only during travel season, but now people seem to be traveling all over all year round traveling to more exotic places. It's become very in vogue. People going to Panama, Cancun, Puerto Rico, other locales in South America, which may be not have might not have been as common years ago. I think it's become much more common. So if someone's going to a hotel with a hashgacha , obviously they should find out whether the hashgacha is reliable, what the standards are. But something that's been coming to our table here at Let's Talk Kashrus  is something called like a “kosher brand”. They go to either a resort or a private cabin or something like that, and and they literally advertise that they offer kosher, whatever that means. They don't have a hashgacha , they don't have a mashgiach . Talk about that. Is there anything to be done about that and how people should be aware that there are many kashrus  pitfalls involved? R’ Sholom Tendler: Yeah, I still get stunned by the question whenever this comes up. The typical question is I'm going to X, Y, and Z resort, it's under X, Y, and Z hashgacha , is it reliable? Fair question. Gets a fair answer. Either we know, we don't know, look into it, at least we know what we're dealing with. But this new thing that's been coming up recently where people go to these exotic resorts and private vacations in in you rent cabins or houses and they offer kosher. So, you know, in the old days, which is probably not too long ago, they would offer packaged meals, airplane meals. Now, it doesn't necessarily mean those packaged meals you find in the supermarkets. They have high-end meals that they would offer in these places, but again, it's packaged, sealed. I've been to high-end events, you know, for non-kosher companies and things like that where they offer you these sealed meals, and you can do really high-end stuff there. But we're past that at this point. Now they're offering you fresh, cooked meals. The chef claims he knows kosher. Maybe he used to work in a New York hotel, and they're offering no mashgiach , no kosher kitchen necessarily. They they claim they keep dedicated equipment for kosher. As you said, the the potential problems are are endless. It's hard to know where to start. Who's buying the ingredients? Kosher meat, kosher chicken, only fish. Yeah, kosher fish, what kind of fish? You someone saw the scales? Forget salmon. Salmon, salmon's for the sushi people. This is already more high-end stuff. How in the world do you know that a skinned piece of fish in front of you, you know, with is a kosher piece of fish? Bishul Akum , shared equipment. You really believe that if they they're short a pot or a pan that they're not taking from the kosher stock? So, I happened to have the fortunate experience that some of my mashgichim  have worked in these places with families that have gone to these kinds of resorts and decided they want to do it right. We didn't certify them. Let's be very upfront about that. But they hired a mashgiach , experienced mashgiach , to go in advance, kasher , order, bring the food, work with the chef and make it as much kosher, as kosher as they were comfortable with. Everyone according to their standards, but I'm not going to judge on that piece. But at the end of the day, I got we got a little picture of what goes on in these places. These people brought a mashgiach . So the mashgiach  was shmoozing with the chef. And it's it's like, once in a while a mashgiach  comes to one of these types of trips, but not always. And people just trust the chef. R’ Yitzchok Hisiger: Which which is it's ludicrous. R’ Sholom Tendler: It's completely ludicrous. It's hard to say something and we generally like to just like cushion things a little bit, but this is like there's no cushioning it. There's there's just no way to rely on such a thing unless there's a hashgacha behind it or at the very least you have a mashgiach , a shomer Torah u'mitzvos  you can confirm is standing there, is going to be there to confirm that things there are kosher. And and if you think that the non-Jewish person in the kitchen is going to make sure everything stays separate, like I have many bridges to sell you. I won't start with the Brooklyn Bridge and I won't end with the Susquehanna. We're going to go to many bridges and you're going to buy them all. R’ Yitzchok Hisiger: No, it it really it boggles the mind to think that people who at home have a certain standard, when they travel suddenly because some resort is offering kosher with zero certification, no mashgiach , no hashgacha , somehow we're taking their word for it and the chef who's a non-Jew who may be well-meaning, suddenly we're trusting him. The the whole thing is really hard. It's hard to believe that we're even addressing it. But apparently, it's so prevalent that it needs addressing and it needs to be spoken about and people have to be really really really vigilant. R’ Sholom Tendler: As we've gotten, I mean vigilant is a bad word for it. Just don't do it. Just don't do it. Just don't do it. And we've gotten so many questions about it and and again, it's just it's it's literally like you said, mind-boggling to think what people would rely on. I it's it's just hard to understand. And we're not speaking this because we want the job. I'll be very upfront. We are not interested in certifying your personal vacation, okay? I don't care how much money you're going to pay us. We're not interested in it. There's nothing to do with that. It's very simple is that we see what goes on and we know what goes on and you don't. You don't. Right? And people don't know what's going on in the back of restaurants and and we do. And Baruch Hashem , in places that have hashgachos , you tend to believe and like to believe and for good reason that hashgachos do a good job. But in these kinds of situations, you're totally left to rely on Chef John, whoever, and it's very hard to understand why people are being someach . R’ Yitzchok Hisiger: Any other final thoughts on this topic of kashrus  while traveling? R’ Sholom Tendler: So I would just encourage people. There's ways to do this right, as I mentioned in the beginning. We travel too, and we travel to far-flung places many times. A little bit of advanced planning, you can you you can do this and you can do it right and you can enjoy your vacation in exotic places. I'm not necessarily encouraging people to do that, but if you do want to go, don't just decide as you mentioned, your Yiddishkeit doesn't end when you leave your front door. I think that doesn't need to be said even. But at the end of the day, there are ways to do this with a little bit of advanced planning. Call, ask, work it out. Often, you know, it's not necessarily as complicated as you think. But the one thing you should not do is don't just take random people's word for things. And make sure they're coming from reliable sources that you would rely on in your own home. R’ Yitzchok Hisiger: Got it. Thank you so much

The Beer Balagan So much confusion in the air regarding the recent news about beer. Is it kosher? Does it need a hechsher? Is this relevant to everyone? Do I need to stock up on beer before January 1st, 2026? We interviewed Rabbi Sholem Fishbane - Kashrus Administrator at the Chicago Rabbinical Council, and Executive Director of AKO, to find out exactly what is going on with the beer. Let's listen in to this insightful conversation. R’ Yitzchok Hisiger: Hello everyone and welcome back to Let's Talk Kashrus , presented by the Kashrus  Awareness project. Today I am privileged to be joined by Rabbi Sholem Fishbane, executive director of AKO and Kashrus  administrator of the Chicago Rabbinical Council. The reason we're meeting today is a little different than our usual episodes where we address a wide range of kashrus  topics. Today we're addressing something more timely, and that is the, what I'll call the beer tumult. Now we usually don't respond to tumults, right? That's not our style, but over here, we, and I say we, Let's Talk Kashrus , the greater kashrus world, has been inundated with questions about beer specifically after what I would say a number of East Coast hashgachos  released a statement regarding beer that seemingly changed the status quo with regard to domestic beer, at least that's the way I understand it. So let's get into it. What exactly was the statement and what surprised people? R’ Sholem Fishbane: These agencies that you mentioned did not release a statement to the public at all. It was an internal document that were sent to their establishments discussing a policy change. Like you said, a tumult or a kashrus  crisis is when we find there's a major problem, uh-oh, alerts and go out and let the world know do this. That's not what happened. It was a calculated, and I want to say three to four year discussion of when should we make a policy change to go from taking beers without a hashgacha  to only having beers with hashgacha in our establishments or parties that are under our hashgacha . Huge difference. And it was somewhat of a leaked document. It was not supposed, yes. And I'm quoting those hashgachos . R’ Yitzchok Hisiger: That makes this much more exciting by the way. R’ Sholem Fishbane: It was a leaked document. It was not supposed to go to the public. It was supposed to go to their establishments and give them time. And what's the biggest raya ? It says there starting January 1st. If it would be a crisis or something terrible, we would be not starting January 1st. And I heard the greatest questions at the convention, like, so if I buy beer on December 31st and I go over the international date line and I come back, does it choizer v'ne'or ? These are like the great questions, like does everyone have to stock up? Nothing is changing in terms of the metzius . My son told me in yeshiva  they they decided the reason. There's a new law passing January 1st that's going to affect all the beers. Also not true. Nothing's changing. It was a policy decision and it's important for us to understand what's going on. And that is that we've been debating internally and we at Kashrus  Awareness, if you recall, have had two episodes on beers. Rabbi Neihaus did a very thorough video explaining what beer is. I explained, I did an episode has to do with our, with our establishments and how we're going to be approaching it at each establishment. Just as a side note, we have so many, liquor has become a big part of the simchas , as we know. And many times a mashgiach , he he look, he walks in on a Shabbos and there's a bar there, he doesn't know what to do. He can't look it up online. We actually just created just last week, a CRC Kosher Liquor Guideline, a pocket where the mashgiach  can put in there, and it goes through, you know, beer and brandy and bourbon and rye and Canadian whiskey, gin, you know, a double sided. It tells us, you know, bekitzur  what the things are. Because this is the metzius  today. So what what was happening was that liquor happens to be pretty much of an established thing. Beer specifically for, you know, hundreds, maybe thousands of years, where there it was very specific, very pure. You can only use four or five things. And that is still the case in most of the world besides the United States, most of the world besides the United States, okay? And in the United States, they started playing around like we spoke about many times, craft breweries, this brewery, that brewery. And because of that, we, we in the industry, have becoming more and more nervous, like how much longer can we still feel that beer being made in the United States is is l'chatchila  kosher? And even if that beer that you picked up is not flavored or anything like that, but what happened to the keilim  and the other stuff that are going on? That's what's going on. And in particularly, there's, there's something we've been we've been finding more and more with beer, again in the United States mostly, is that they're able to use and they use sometimes lactose. Now, why do they use lactose? It has to do with the way lactose basically is a gives it a certain sweetness and smoothness that doesn't get lost when they when they do the brewing, as opposed to some of the other things. So it stays with it. It's very good. And here's the key. The key is that because beer is not moderated by the FDA, rather by something called TTB, they don't have to declare like on food. They don't have to say there's there's no allergies, even though lactose itself might not be an allergen because there's no protein in it. But beside, they don't have to, they don't have to write ingredients. It's a different type of... regulation. And and because lactose is becoming common, more common rather, I don't want to make this a it's not a crisis. It's just it's becoming more common. And lactose not only is milchig , but it could actually be non-kosher because it comes from, you know, cheese. Therefore we're we're becoming more and more concerned. We in kashrus agencies tried to give over to the tzibbur  what's called shailah -free. And when a person walks into our place, they are not looking for bedieveds . Again, this is not the consumer. So, you know, I want to give an example. I remember when I first got into kashrus , we the agencies weren't really looking at what's called transportation trucking. You know those big trucks on the side of the road they're going on down the road and all that. It was too difficult. We were we were still dealing with making sure every ingredients were kosher. We always had, you know, we we knew that even if there was something non-kosher that the truck had previously done, hauled, it was going to be kosher bedieved . like the Shach  and all of that. But once we got our we were we were very solid with everything else, we we went into, okay, now no more of the of bedieved , whatever is, no more shailah -free. And we and now Baruch Hashem , all the transportation in America is is lechatchila mehadrin . And you could if you if you look through the history of kashrus , and I can write a book on this, how we as we grow, the klal Yisrael  and and our and our buying power has grow, we're able to do this more and more and more. And that's that's mamish  what's going on with beer. We have had the opportunity now that Baruch Hashem  to say, we we don't need to do this anymore. We don't we don't need to rely on taking beers that are problematic or at least have a shailah  to it. And therefore, let's get are we ready to get to that point where only you should use a beer that are under hashgacha , meaning the the party's under hashgacha , with hashgacha . That was the debate. Let me explain to you the problem. The problem is that if you look at the most popular beers, let's say the top 10 beers in the world, eight out of 10 of them don't have a hechsher . So how can we go ahead and put out a list and and and insist, right, that you can only have a with a hechsher  if you you kimat  can't get anything good? So what and so what happened was that this this has been the debate. And on top of that, if let's say we came out and the world and a word got out that you should only get something with a hechsher . The hashgachos say that. And you say, okay, I follow the hashgachos . And then you walk into a shalom zachar , their own rav , and he has a Heineken on the table. Heineken doesn't have a hechsher . What are we doing? Right? You understand from it there's a there's almost like a big picture chinuch aspect. Right, right. Gzeira she'efshar yachol la'amoid bo . La'amoid bo , right. When Chazal  said it, they knew there's real it's a real thing. So this was the debate. I'm talking two, three, four years, you know, really geshmak  debates in the kashrus world, in the AKO executive, what we should and should not do. And what we we discovered was that every agency has their kehilah and they they can decide for themselves. And that's what happened. At at the last AKO executive meeting, we we we the the what you mentioned, the larger East Coast hashgacha  said, you know what? We feel in the East Coast and based on the the clientele that we're servicing, we think it's time to make that turn. And v'rayo , we're not doing it, it's not a crisis. Starting whatever it is, we're going to start, we're going to make that turn, we're going to do that corner. And other agencies said, we're with you. We're not there yet. Because we cannot give a list, and if you look at the list that was given out originally, even though there were several hundred, but some of the more popular ones, if you read the the the actual the the not the fine print, but it said there things like only available in UK or Belgium. Shkoyach , but the shalom zachar  is in Lakewood. Right? And what what the chiddush  is is that the agencies felt that they could include some of the the top five popular beers based on very, very first-hand knowledge. R’ Yitzchok Hisiger: Included in the kosher list? Yes, even though it doesn't have a hashgacha . R’ Sholem Fishbane: So why? So and I'll tell you what they are. Heineken, Modelo, Budweiser, Stella, Corona. Why? Because it turns out that it actually we have to thank the importers for Israel. There are many these these beers that make it to Israel. So that those that go to Eretz Yisrael  have hashgachos . R’ Yitzchok Hisiger: They do? R’ Sholem Fishbane: They do have hashgachos . They're they're special runs. So the agencies that are visiting those for the special runs, now are in the factories. They're saying eidus  of what's going on of what's going on in those in those major ones. And therefore even though it doesn't have a hashgacha on it, there's enough yedios  and eidus  and knowledgeable in the factory to say we're comfortable adding to the list. That's a major breakthrough. That's a major breakthrough. R’ Yitzchok Hisiger: And is that a new revelation? R’ Sholem Fishbane: That's a new revelation. And that that's going to be started to be included. R’ Yitzchok Hisiger: So therefore, but I will say also that because of that revelation, it also somewhat weakens the whole project in the sense that, okay, so now there are some beers I could use without hashgacha . Are you not concerned that now people will just kind of say that this whole awareness is kind of lacking. So I appreciate that's a very human mentality is that when you have a Torah she'b'al peh , all of a sudden the Torah she'b'ksav  falls apart. R’ Sholem Fishbane: Exactly. Great point. Great point. So if it would just be Torah she'b'al peh  that I called the company and I and I spoke to them and everything's okay, put it on the list, you're right. But this is actually much stronger because there's there's the hashgachos  are going into the factories. Uh, so therefore that's why those hashgachos  felt. But at the end of the day, you're it it is a it is a valid point and therefore they're not going to be expanding. You know, they're not they're not looking to start expanding more than this. R’ Yitzchok Hisiger: So it's just those five classic. And will it be publicized? Because it has not been publicized as of yet, right? Right. Just to address before you go further, the January 1st date also was technically an arbitrary date, right? Just because the start of the new secular year, but it didn't have any scientific or or kashrus  importance, that particular date, right? R’ Sholem Fishbane: Right. There was nothing nothing like like my son's theory in yeshiva , right? No, nothing. R’ Yitzchok Hisiger: No new laws, nothing nothing's changing as of that date. It's just that you needed a date to choose to choose to give them enough time. to give people enough time to prepare and so on. R’ Sholem Fishbane: Right. It really is an, we'll call it an American problem. Because you're saying that what? That around the world they haven't been don't play around, that craft breweries are not throwing in oysters, they're not they're not putting bacon in. I think I mentioned last time, you know, one of the our fellow um colleagues in in Boston. So he walked into a craft brewery and they were putting in pepperoni pizza into it, and they put in ham and this. That's that's like an American craft micro. And and the reason why, again, the reason why the hashgachos  felt that it was time to turn the corner is when you go shopping, it's very hard for you to actually know is this a craft brewery, is is one of the big boys. You know, it's hard to know. So, we it was just too confusing and therefore, you know, it was time to turn the corner. So I hope I'm giving somewhat of a background of what the debate was. And it's very similar, there's so many other examples. I gave the transportation, but there there's canned vegetables. You can go through the history of food and and kashrus . And and and as both we've gotten stronger and as and together with the industry changing, that the agencies had said it's time for us to become shaila -free on this as well. And that's what's going on over here. And there are there are hundreds if not thousands of ingredients that we call in the industry group-one that we still accept without a hashgacha because we know that that's just a pure type of product. Now, the other agencies that aren't there yet are not because in principle they feel this, you know, they're wrong, but it's because based on, as I said, demographics, other things, they feel that their kehillah  are, you know, in other words, if it would be a real shaila , there's nothing to talk about. We're talking about thinking about the future, when is that time to turn that corner? Shaila -free is always a good way to go. Right. There's close to 900 beers that I know about offhand that have a hashgacha . R’ Yitzchok Hisiger: 900 beers? Is that right? Yeah. Have a hashgacha ? R’ Sholem Fishbane: Have a hashgacha . Wow. You know, uh, you know, all the Sam Adams, there are. There's there's that's another reason, and maybe I should have said this in the beginning, another reason why these hashgachos  said, let's turn the corner January 1st, is because there's an option. If we would do that today, let's say on scotch, there's almost nothing to drink. I mean, there's not enough good scotch or Irish whiskey that have hashgacha  yet to be able to turn the corner. But because beer had there are so many, you know, maybe there's up to a thousand, you know, whatever the number. R’ Yitzchok Hisiger: Now if someone if someone wanted to explore that list of beer with hashgacha , where where could they look or where could they check? R’ Sholem Fishbane: So the CRC, you know, who I my day job, uh, we have a a very a full list of beer? a very, but we have we divide into three. Okay. We these agencies sent out a spreadsheet to their and you know, I'm sure it's available somewhere. Um, you know, I I don't think they're they're not releasing that. But I can tell you what we we've done. We have a very thorough liquor list. It's probably the largest in the world of researched beer, of liquor b'klal , and we divide it into three categories. Um, certified, approved, which means we did the research, and non-recommended. Okay? So someone like yourself or, you know, a yirei shamayim  or that that you I just want I just want certified. Very easy. Uh, you know, you could you can choose on our website which ones to give the whole list, just certified list, just the non-approved list, you know, whatever you want. So the options are, that would be uh, I'm not just saying because I work for the CRC, it happens to be, you know, kudos to Rabbi Niehaus who does a tremendous amount. research. And he himself, he stopped researching every time a new beer comes out. We're not researching the beers that don't have hashgacha . We feel we researched the classics, we're good to go, and Klal Yisrael should be has sufficient amount of beer to get us through at least one shalom zachar . Right, right. R’ Yitzchok Hisiger: Well, we appreciate you shedding light on this. I can't tell you how many questions I got about this in the last few weeks and people just want to be informed. And I'll end with this. I'm always impressed by the bikush , the desire of people to do the right thing. Time and again, I'm blown away. People come over and they come with questions with tremendous sincerity. And it's not just recommendations for topics that we should speak about here on this program. It's real questions. They want to do the right thing. So many people ask me for your number. They would love to call you day and night with questions. R’ Sholem Fishbane: And they ask me for your number. R’ Yitzchok Hisiger: That's just because they want to be on the program. But all jokes aside, people do want to do the right thing. They want to reach out and this program enables them to do that. So Rabbi Fishbane, thank you again for all that you do for our project and specifically for coming in today to shed light on this very important topic.  .

Kosher Breakfast Hacks So, you're on vacation and the hotel has a free continental breakfast. What can you eat? What must be avoided? Rabbi Sholom Tendler - Kashrus Administrator at the STAR-K gives us some seasoned travel hacks for our next vacation. R’ Yitzchok Hisiger: Hello everyone and welcome back to Let's Talk Kashrus , presented by the Kashrus  Awareness Project and the Chicago Rabbinical Council. Today I am privileged to be joined by Rabbi Sholom Tendler, kashrus administrator at the Star-K. Thank you Rabbi Tendler for joining us once again. R’ Sholom Tendler: Pleasure, thank you for having me back. Appreciate it. R’ Yitzchok Hisiger: Today we'd like to discuss a very important topic, something that comes up, perhaps at one time it would have been only during the summer or only during travel season, but now people seem to be traveling all over all year round and we get inundated with questions about what people can eat, what they can't eat, they're staying at hotels, staying in hotel rooms, so on and so forth. So let's start with a basic question that we get, which is when people are staying at hotels, they want to know if they could eat from the free breakfast that's offered, the often known as the continental breakfast. Give us a little guidance as to what people may or may not eat in such a setting. R’ Sholom Tendler: Sure, popular, very common question. Just a little background and that is is that, we're not just coming over here from people calling us with questions and we deal with restaurants and things like that, so we'll answer your questions. We all travel too in the kashrus world, not just on vacation. Personally myself, I am a 1k member on United, so we're out and about, we are out there having the same situations that everyone else is and we've, as they say, been there and done that ourselves. So we've been to these continental breakfasts in the hotels and we've been able to see because we're also hungry and we want to know what's going on in there. So the first thing I would tell you is is that you really have to check, there are potentially a number of items that could be enjoyed by the kosher conscious consumer, but it's something that people really have to check into. And the reason for that is is because let's go through some of the more popular items, the bagels, the breads, the muffins. So obviously if they're prepackaged, usually in cheaper places, you could see for yourself is a hechsher  on the package or not and make your own determination. Often they're just put out in the spread, loose. In that kind of situation, you really want to ask to see the box. And don't just go over to the front desk or the lady who's setting up and say, are they kosher? And they'll say, yeah. Maybe someone was there previously and asked, maybe yeah, maybe not. At the end of the day, you have to recognize the fact that they don't keep kosher and I always like to tell people, keep in mind that the most upstanding, ehrlich  non-Jewish person has as much care about kashrus as you have for halal . That's not a political statement, but just think about it, you're not in tune to the nuances of what we're looking for. A story that just happened recently, I love saying this over is that we had an event, a waitress comes over to one of the mashgichim  and asks to borrow a phone charger. Right? And she takes the phone charger, goes over to the wall, and is about to plug it in, turns to the mashgiach  and says, can I plug it in, or you need to plug it in? Right? So you see Baruch Hashem  they're well trained, but they also have no clue what we're trying to do over here, really no clue. So that's something you have to keep in mind. When you're asking your question, you have to really confirm everything yourself. And I always like to throw it back at the people. If you would call us, I work for the Star-K, and say how do you certify that factory? Very simple. We call the factory and ask them, is it kosher? And they say yes, so we issue them a letter of certification. You'd run the other way, rightfully so. Why would you do that to yourself? Right? So ask to see the box. Maybe it's Lender's Bagels or something like that, one of the well-known brands that has a hechsher  on it. That's fine. You want to confirm that. The other thing you want to be concerned about potentially is that they a lot of times they will reheat them in an oven before they put them out loose to defrost them, reheat them to give them a little more fresh tasting, a little fresher. So the best thing would be is you could try to ask them if they reheat them. Otherwise, take a bag right out of the box, take bagels straight out of the box. Maybe it's a little bit frozen, might be a little bit defrosted. Still, that's the safest thing to do and usually they're more than happy to accommodate. I've been in many situations myself, they're they they try to accommodate guests as much as possible. You can tell them a kosher rule, don't worry, they're not going to ask too many questions and people always wonder, oh it sounds weird. I'm very self-conscious asking those questions. Like listen, in America, walk out in the streets, you're not weird, okay? It's just your religion, Baruch Hashem , we're doing it because of your yiras shamayim . Ask the question, you'll be fine, you'll get an answer. Worst case scenario, they'll say no. I've never had that happen to me before. Never. R’ Yitzchok Hisiger: I think that's good to hear. R’ Sholom Tendler: Never had that happen to me before and I've been in the situation many times. So that's as far as the bagels go. Moving on to other items, there's the hard-boiled eggs. We got a lot of questions about that. So first of all, hard-boiled eggs, bishul akum , right? Not for me who just learned that recently, straight up bishul akum . So there's really no heter  on that unless they're buying them already cooked, which is possible. You get commercial. With a hechsher . They come in like a big a big bucket with a hechsher  on them, and then obviously that would be okay, but you want to confirm that. The waffle maker, just stay away. I have seen so many situations with the waffle maker. They don't necessarily always use the same brand. They tell you they do. Again, same thing. Because they told you you do, you're going to rely on that. There's plenty of stuff that they put on there that might not be 100% kosher. They they re-oil it often in the kitchen as well. Just just it's not worth relying on the waffle maker. Will I tell you it's treif if you get a waffle off there because you did it already this past summer when you were traveling? I'm not going that far to say that, but again, we're talking about people that when you travel. we're yirei Shamayim , we try to do the best job possible. So this is something that in general people should be aware of. It's not so simple, you should try to stay away from it. Even the toaster oven, whether it's the pop-up toaster or the belt toaster. I have seen myself, because I've been in many hotels, what goes on in those things. First of all pop-tarts, which a lot of them are not kosher, go in the pop-up toaster, and then on the conveyor toaster, many times people are putting all kinds of things in, they're warming up their pizza from supper. I have seen this. Hot dogs, right through there. Wow. That's as far as that goes. As far as the cereals go, same thing, check the box. Most of the time it's just the regular Cheerios and Raisin Bran that they have that you'll buy, the Kellogg's or General Mills, whatever. Sometimes it's the Malt-O-Meal, all pretty much kosher, but that's something again you should confirm. Apple juices, orange juices, 100% pure juices typically are considered okay. Cranberry juice is not. Cranberry juice is very often, very often, have grape juice added as sweetener because they're very tart. So that's something you'd want to avoid unless it has a proper hashgacha  on it. R’ Yitzchok Hisiger: How about if they have non-dairy milk? like almond milk, things like that, oat milk. First of all, do those need a hashgacha ? R’ Sholom Tendler: They do need a hashgacha . You'd be hard pressed to find without a hashgacha  in the United States at least. But very common now, especially to someone like myself who is lactose intolerant, I'm very in tune to it. Everybody has those available, so especially for the cholov Yisroel  conscious consumers, it's something that's a big boon. And those are some, those are things that are pretty much available in many, many places. Oat milk, by the way, if you're makpid on yashan , at some point in the season would be a yashan  problem. Okay. So just keep that in mind as well. R’ Yitzchok Hisiger: Okay. How about coffee and tea and hot water in that setting? R’ Sholom Tendler: Those are those are going to be okay. Those are going to be those those machines are only used for plain coffee. They're not using anything funny or flavored or Frappuccino’s or refreshers or any kinds of things that make coffee shops potentially complicated. It's straight, simple, plain coffee which is kosher. in those things. And obviously the cheeses would have to be kosher. Very unlikely you're going to find kosher cheeses in a type of hotel situation. Yogurts as well. There are some, let's say, yogurts that have a very reliable hashgachos . You could have the same brand of yogurt that doesn't have a hashgacha  on it. There's anytime you have that, there's a reason for that. And in this kind of situation, yogurts typically contain gelatin. If it does not have a reliable hashgacha , it's almost guaranteed it contains treif gelatin in it. So that's the reason why it doesn't have a valid hashgacha on it. R’ Yitzchok Hisiger: As far as utensils, plates, bowls, if they don't have disposable, is there any way that you could use these items on cold and things like that? R’ Sholom Tendler: So typically cold, especially if it's derech arai , then something you could rely on, but it's not geshmak . Derech arai , I would say most poskim  would be meikel  on it, but ideally you want to just stick to disposable. If they don't have it available, bring your own. Obviously if a hotel has fresh cooked to order items, those, there's nothing to talk about, they're made in a treif  kitchen, there's nothing really you can get from such a menu. In the hotel room itself, let's move to that. So you have the coffee maker in the hotel room, whether it's a Keurig, whether it's a single serve cup. Those are pretty much okay. They don't really make treif Keurig cups anymore. They used to make soups, they don't make those anymore. If you want to be extra careful with the Keurig, you can just run it through a hot water cycle first to be extra careful. Even if they have the old-fashioned carafes, which I haven't seen in a while. The old-fashioned carafes again, I know during COVID, there was a guy that made a TikTok video how he made chicken soup in that thing. But we're not in bachurim diras  here, we're being so creative. Typically you don't have to worry about that, you could use the coffee machine in the room. Okay. The microwaves in the room, you should just double wrap everything you put in there. In two bags, doesn't have to be mamash  hermetically sealed. Any two bags would work. Even if it opens up a little bit, also it's okay. That's something you should do. Don't bother trying to kasher  the microwave unless you're experienced in kashering . Just just don't. Double wrap. Just double wrap. Safest thing to go, safest thing to do, and stick to that. R’ Yitzchok Hisiger: I want to go back just to one thing in the hotel. I think we we omitted, and it it comes up not only in a hotel setting but people traveling, they go to, you know, convenience stores and that is cut-up fruit. Cut-up fruit in a hotel and cut-up fruit in, you know, you go to one of these convenience gas stations, sometimes they have them packaged. Talk about the cut-up fruit for a moment. R’ Sholom Tendler: So again, so keep in mind with cut-up fruit, there are plenty of poskim , including Shulchan Aruch , that seem to say it will be okay if you don't see any treif  residue on there. You could assume that there was bittel  by the time the knives were finished cutting all the fruit. And there's certainly merit to that, not that it needs my haskama to say that. At the end of the day though, just knowing what goes on in kitchens, it just does make me personally feel a little uncomfortable knowing that this was cut literally side by side with treif . And that is what goes on, by the way. That is what goes on. Supermarkets may be a little bit better because they tend to have vegetable departments, but I've seen it myself. Not always. I've been in one supermarket where just because of space constraints, they moved the vegetable check vegetable cutting and fruit cutting into the meat room, because again, there's no allergen concerns. They couldn't move into the fish, they move into the meat room. Did not make me so comfortable looking at that kind of a setup. Then you have places, let's say like Wegmans, where they have you can see in front of you a separate fruit and vegetable cutting department. So that really there's no problem with. And that you could do. The other thing that I'd like to mention also is that especially when you're traveling. traveling, packaged fruit that you find in places that don't have a place area to cut up food. 7-Eleven, Sunoco's, Jersey Turnpike stores, they have cut up mangoes and cut up apples and things like that, 100% kosher l'mehadrin , even without a hashgacha . Those will come from companies that just package fruit and vegetables all day long. It's all they do. And really no problem at all. R’ Yitzchok Hisiger: You know where I've actually seen it? I'm curious. Very often in Manhattan, you'll find on the corner, on the corner you'll see like these little fruit shops under a little umbrella, and very often they're selling cut up fruit there. Now, I would never buy it just because my my my kashrus antenna goes up. I don't feel comfortable. R’ Sholom Tendler: I mean that guy brought those knives from his house. R’ Yitzchok Hisiger: Yeah, I don't know, right, exactly. I don't know how comfortable I would be, some guy selling it on the corner. But you're saying when you're buying it in a store, very often it's it's being produced commercially or most of the time. R’ Sholom Tendler: If the store doesn't have a place to cut fruit and vegetables, like a Sunoco station, 7-Eleven, they're getting it from a company that makes fruits and vegetables and that is 100% kosher l'mehadrin . There's no problem at all. Thank you so much.